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Live Sync: life after Live Mesh

By on June 13, 2010 9:56 AM
33 comments

live mesh logoThe thing is, we were as invested in Live Mesh as anybody, probably more so.  We’ve been avid followers since back when it was only us and the hamsters and the gerbils.  In December of 2007 we told you to “Pay Attention to FeedSync”, then we followed Ray Ozzie to Mix to see what was on the Horizon, and we’ve been devoted Live Mesh users ever since.

Truth be told, we’ve been hearing rumblings for months that the new Live Sync wouldn’t carry forward the 5gb (or even 30gb for some select few) of cloud sync that Live Mesh users were used to.  But we understand (we think) why the change was necessary.  Some bean counters at Microsoft, for one thing, started doing the math on how much storage would be required to accommodate the flood of new Live Sync users coming with Wave 4, and that was the end of that.  Paul Thurrott, in his delightfully cynical way, describes it best:

…it’s pretty clear that the 25 GB limit is and has been a bit of a game, because Microsoft has also made it very, very difficult to populate that storage within anything meaningful to actual users. Just ask anyone who’s tried to upload documents or photos in bulk about how difficult it is using Microsoft’s almost non-existent tools. (Only a web uploader is provided, and there is no automated method/Explorer add-in at all.)

Windows Live Sync, of course, does provide an automated way to put stuff in the cloud. So now that Microsoft has made this process easy in certain scenarios, they’ve also taken away storage instead of adding it, as one might expect when Live Mesh/Sync is combined with Windows Live SkyDrive. It’s just another game: It can be huge but inaccessible or tiny but accessible, apparently.

Quite a number of readers commented on David Treadwell’s blog post highlighting Live Sync, with a number of concerns.  Jeremy Mazner from Live Sync (actually: Principal Program Manger Lead for Live Sync Client Runtime, ouch) responded to many of them, and we’ll try to sum up his responses here:

  • Some stuff about how 2gb is really ok, after all
  • Live Mesh users will have at least 6 months after the beta ends and Live Sync is released to move content from Live Mesh to Live Sync (or where ever).  Installing Wave 4 will uninstall Live Mesh and install Live Sync, you can’t have both on the same machine.
  • No plans to add remote desktop for the Mac
  • Sharing between Live Mesh and Live Sync, or the old Live Sync and the new one, are not possible
  • You can’t move files from the Live Sync part of SkyDrive to the other part of SkyDrive “in this release”

Microsoft still needs to offer a way to provide cloud storage for your synced files, and users seem willing to pay if a pricing and a billing model could be worked out (hey, there’s this thing called Azure, with cloud storage and a billing model and sync and…, ever hear of it?).  We haven’t heard much recently about an SDK, and we’re hoping that developers both within and beyond Microsoft will be able to extend Live Sync. 

We’re also perplexed, four years after Windows Live Favorites was released, why we still don’t have an easy built in way to store IE favorites in the cloud. This seems to be the perfect use of that 2gb: fill it with Favorites, Office settings, and Messenger conversation history, and call it good, with a business model for more cloud storage sync on top of that.  We used to have Windows Live Favorites, and after that the Windows Live Toolbar, and now no cloud sync at all?

But we’re excited to try out the new Live Sync.  We think going with just one sync product is the right move, we (begrudgingly) understand the massive scale issues with giving people large cloud storage, and we’re willing to wait (but not another year or more!) for more features to be added.

What do you think about how you’ll be using Live Sync?  Let us know by voting in our new poll (in the sidebar on the right), and fire away in the comments.

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Comments

  • Laundry

    Well, I’ll certainly be using it less than I use Mesh.

  • http://www.guillaumeb.com/ GuillaumeB

    Well, I’ve using the Dropbox client for several years now. I even had a Pro account with more than 50 Go of storage. I downgraded to a basic account 18 months ago but still have 8Go for free thanks to their referal program. It works on Win, Mac and Linux which is a good thing for me as I like to change OS from time to time. I could have switched to Live Sync since they add remote desktop but this 2Go limit is pretty annoying to me. I don’t have many medias but those I have I put them in sync (shared on my gf’s laptop).
    Overall now I’m not sure I’ll be using Live sync. IE9 will have to convince me to sync favorites, Chrome does it perfectly right now.Applications settings synchronisation is convenient but not that useful to me who switches OS quite often (2MBP, 1 Win7, 1 Ubuntu)

    However I believe Live Sync still remains a huge step forward for regular Windows users and I’m sure many people will make a great deal using it.

  • http://rhftech.com RichardFrisch

    Once again Microsoft fails to take R&D forward and capitalize on investment. Mesh’s main benefit over Dropbox is 5GB free vs. Dropbox 2GB free. All else being equal, I prefer Dropbox. It is faster.

    I fully expect Google or Apple to deliver something in this space that blows away Live Sync. Google’s will be free and Apple’s will cost $$$. They will be better than Live Sync and end up marginalizing Microsoft.

    • jtmat

      Live sync blows dropbox away… no contest.

      I can now sync 200 folders, each folder containing 100,000 files, and each file having a size up to 40 gb. How much data is that??? lol

      Try doing THAT with dropbox and see what happens. LOL

      Seriously, my issue with dropbox is I can’t sync my 150 gb of files with their service. Actually, I don’t want to send all my files to an online service anyway. I need choice. I also don’t want to pay them $20 a month to sync my files.

      Guess it is all about how you want to use the service. As Paul went on to say in his post, ” the reality is that PC-to-PC sync of documents is far more important to me than is the ability to access those files from a “web desktop” (as Live Mesh had). In fact, I don’t believe I even once directly accessed the Live Mesh web desktop to get at a file…”

      That sums it up for me as well. Heck when given the choice, I used sync instead of mesh. I tested both services for months.

      • http://twitter.com/RichardFrisch Richard Frisch

        I was commenting on the integration of Mesh (a cloud-based app) and Sync into Live Sync. I wouldn’t want to sync 150gb, with 100,000 files per folder with each file up to 40gb on a regular basis across a LAN. If that floats your boat, okay. There are many other fine utilities for doing that. Paul Therrott has a journalist/writer/blogger’s point-of-view. Mine is based upon daily in-the-trenches experiences with tens of clients and hundreds of seats. Synchronization for them is not about huge numbers of giant files, but rather about the “right files” in the “right place” at whatever time they need or want to access them.BTW, 100,000 files per folder is generally a bad directory/file structure so I have to wonder what you are trying to do.Opposite to you, I found Sync of limited value but liked Mesh. If Live Sync has no more cloud capacity than 2gb I go elsewhere to solve my client and my needs. When that happens Microsoft will lose another opportunity to cement customer relationships and gives other companies the opportunity to satisfy these customer needs. Microsoft marginalizes itself these days by frequent inept service and product launches. I wish it were otherwise.

        • jtmat

          Syncing 80 gb is not a big deal… same as synching 2 gb, once you go through the initial syncing process. I don’t change 80 gb of files in one day… at most “I” change maybe 2 mb to 6 gb.

          If you move up to gb lan, syning does not take long at all. For example, I moved 48 gb last night in 35 minutes. Not the fastest, but it worked fine.

          Tens of clients and hundreds of seats… sounds almost like you need a server and another computer to sync with, to act like a “file server” (which I have setup as well). But I won’t assume to know what you need… maybe mesh is what you need. Sorry it is not going to work out for you.

          Best thing is, you have a choice. Dropbox can provide you with the space you need for $10 or $20 per month.

          No, I don’t have a folder with 100,000 files. lol I do have a folder with over 32,000 files across over 1,000 folders. This is for some projects that I do not want to break apart (can’t with the 20 folder limit the current live sync). It is actually a very tidy and organized directory/file structure, thank you. ;-) Which is why I did not want to break it up to use sync.

          I’ve found the new sync to be very useful and more along the lines of what the people I know will need/use. Matter of fact, I’ve known several people to use sync and not one person to use mesh.

          • Rodolfo G.

            Your use of Live Sync (which is mainly a PC-to-PC kind o f sync) is certainly going to be handled better by Live Sync than by any other current client…. Yet I concur with Richard that for users like us who use mostly the PC-to-Cloud kind of syncing, Mesh was a better option before than what Live Sync is going to be know, solely because we NEED and have accommodated to the current 5GB of cloud spaced offered by Mesh… Yet, besides Live Mesh, I also use Dropbox AND Syncplicity, and out of those three, the best PC-to-Cloud service is currently provided by Dropbox… I only use Live Mesh because of the 5GB offering… take that (space) away, and I rather only use Dropbox as it is indeed a much leaner, faster and overall better client than any other syncing app out there.

  • http://techbuyer.spaces.live.com Custom Computers

    “As usual …. one step forward and two steps backward.” As we see it Live Sync did not perform as expected while Live Mesh was developed in another area. Blending the two it would appear offers the user less not more functionality.

    After following The Live Suite since beta, seeing far too much emphasis on social networking, we plan to “Wave Goodbye” to Microsoft until they choose a new CEO with a sense of direction.

  • http://twitter.com/davidblouin David Blouin

    Windows Live Sync and Skydrive Explorer will have to do i guess. But let’s hope they change their mind about the 2 gb if we can make enought noise maybe we can fix this maybe.

  • pdg

    They focused on updating existing services rather than critically redefine their strategy, that’s the sad truth,
    Skydrive is just for sharing files, Mesh syncs contents across devices. That’s it.
    Both are not meant for backup purposes or cloud storage capabilities integrated with your windows os which, instead, is what people is asking for.
    Microsoft seems to like coming late to the game, and they did it again: in 12 months google docs / chrome os and who knows what else will blew wave 4, unless Redomnd people become more aggressive on updates.

  • JohnCz

    Paul also makes a point about the need to police copyright material. They probably would have to increase staff significantly and provide internal monitoring tools. That costs money. Also the bandwidth is more of a cost factor than the storage itself. They are probably worried about the impact it would have to other services…so they isolated it. All legitimate factors.

    I think a practical solution is fairly straightforward. Add capability to move/copy files manually between SkyDrive and Sync (seems to be on their radar according to Jeremy). And add 25GB paid storage plans in addition to hiring copyright monitoring personel that is proportional to # of paid plans.

    Separate from what I suggest above they should move quickly to allow App developers to let their apps take advantage of Live Sync in the same way Office and IE can. I’ve posted elsewhere how I’d like to see that work.

  • Brandon

    I probably won’t notice that much of a difference, aside from the relatively few files I currently sync to the Live Desktop will now be more accessible.

    Going from 5gb to 2gb is a bummer, but I’ll make do, and at least the folders that I don’t sync to desktop will still work.

  • JohnCz

    Kip, I’m a bit confused about your comments around Live Favorites. Its my understanding that Live Sync will sync all your favorites and IE settings. And using Live Sync, I imagine you can share a folder in IE Favorites with friends. What did you expect from Live Favorites?

    • Damaster – LiveSide.net

      @JohnCz: I think what Kip meant was the “cloud sync” part – i.e. the ability to access your Favorites on the cloud, at a computer where you don’t have Sync installed. The old Windows Live Favorites is purely a “cloud” service, then when it moved to SkyDrive, where your favorites are synced via WL Toolbar (using Sync as the backend), but your favorites are still accessible on the “cloud”. With this new Sync, favourites (and IE settings) are peer-to-peer only, without the “cloud” component, unless you select to Sync your “Favorites” folder and access it via the Windows Live Devices website – but that means you need to leave at least one of your synced computers always on.

      • jtmat

        Once you sync the folder, you can turn off the computer.

        • http://www.LiveSide.net Kip Kniskern – LiveSide.net

          In a scenario like mine (pretty typical, I think), it’s the most recent bookmarks that I’m after, which is why having cloud sync was so convenient. You’re at your main computer and add a bunch of bookmarks, then grab your laptop and head out the door. Was your laptop on and connected long enough to sync? What about accessing those bookmarks on another computer? And if I only have 2gb, Favorites (bookmarks) would/will be the first thing I set up to sync, even if it means doing it manually instead of through the built in “IE settings” tools. Just seems like an opportunity wasted.

          • jtmat

            Sounds like you are the perfect candidate for a Windows Home Sever (once Vail is released)… ;-)

            I keep an old laptop on 24/7 so I don’t have this issue. If I did not have the old laptop, I’d more than likely purchased a used (or new) network to do the job.

            Being able to sync more than 2gb would not help me, I’m pushing over 80 gb and that will move up to 150 gb once the new sync version is released.

      • JohnCz

        IE Favorites/Settings…”peer-to-peer only”…interesting. I doubt this is some limitation of the online service…its seems more like a default Live Sync desktop setting to do device-device syncing instead of device-online-device. Considering this is a Beta, hopefully they will change the default to device-online-device.

  • jtmat

    Microsoft has added the ability to keep your files with you at all times, if you own a laptop/netbook. Even if you are away, you can access all of your files via remote desktop. From remote desktop you have access to your files and programs.

    My only issue with remote desktop is I have to keep the pc turned on at all times. I’d like to allow it to sleep and then have a button in live sync to “wake up” the pc so I can access it for remote desktop.

    What MS offers for free is in line with the industry. For the occasional time I might need it, the 2 gb for free is great.

    Of course, MS has the ability to crush dropbox… but I’m sure the “legal team” would love to have that happen. I think MS has many issues to take into consideration. With that in mind, it might take google, aol, yahoo, dropbox, box.net, etc to kick the door open so MS can follow.

  • hermanog

    The new live sync supports syncing program settings and Internet Explorer is one of those programs. I would assume favorites would be one of the things that are synced.

    • http://www.LiveSide.net Kip Kniskern – LiveSide.net

      Yes correct. IE settings does sync favorites, but only peer to peer. It doesn’t store a copy up on SkyDrive.

      • JohnCz

        Kip, do you think Microsoft will make tweaks during the Live Essentials Beta? I wonder if there is some hidden configuration setting to enable device-online-device syncing of favorites.

        • http://www.LiveSide.net Kip Kniskern – LiveSide.net

          Good question. If you remember the Wave 3 beta, there were literally no changes from the latest beta to the final, they just took the beta tag off. Will Wave 4 be updated more frequently than Wave 3? Well it couldn’t be updated any LESS frequently, so we’ll have to wait and see.

          • JohnCz

            Hopefully you folks get the opportunity to interview the Windows Live team.

  • bernard

    I think the biggest issue for me is that they seemed to have abandoned their original vision of Live Mesh as THE consumer cloud platform. What ever happened to Mesh-enabled devices and Mesh-enabled apps?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFpwzg-AP_Q
    I see this video now, and I cry, because this will probably never come to fruition, just like Longhorn’s original vision never did.

    • JohnCz

      I’d wait for PDC before we make any declarations here. I think we’ll see some new developer related info for Live Sync. But first, they have to roll out the integrated Live Mesh core technologies in Windows Live.

      • bernard

        I don’t think Microsoft is planning a PDC 2010 this year, or they would have announced it by now. Besides, I don’t think Windows Live would be that attractive to PDC attendees; this seems more like an event for MIX.

    • http://tertius.myopenid.com/ Roy

      Unfortunately, I must agree with you here and it’s a trend that’s been slowly developing over several years and versions. Many great ideas that started out with a great deal of functionality and versatility seem to eventually get watered down or just completely dropped. Yet in the meantime needlessly redundant features from different products get thrown together with little to no option for user. Why does the Live Toolbar have the same search bar that IE already has? Granted we can change the provider in IE8, but it was 2 versions of IE before this was possible.

      The most disheartening thing I’ve found is MS will abruptly cease interaction with users on their blogs, forums, etc on betas or features that have gained much attention and interest (Windows Live Personalized page, Live Favorites, Onfolio etc.). Months later these products will suddenly be annouced as shelved or “integrated” into a lesser incarnation with the coffin nail statement “to be considered as a feature for a future version”. In hindsight, the silence actually speaks volumes; I’ve learned to see it as a sign of things to come. Or rather things to go.

  • JohnCz

    Totally unrelated, is there any updates from Microsoft when we’ll be able to use our Live IDs on Open ID sites…like LiveSide’s comment system run by Disqus.

  • Paul

    Does Live Sync have delta sync ?

  • Dag

    What will be the difference between the forthcoming Live Sync and Gbridge?

  • JohnCz

    Unrelated. Microsoft announced Video Kinect will be coming to Live Messenger. It looks to be more than just video chat….at E3, they demostrated a video chat session where one user was able to share video with the other user.

  • http://tertius.myopenid.com/ Roy

    I think it’s also going to be interesting to see what other “Live” features will be discarded as they’re rolled into existing products for “new” releases. The preview buttons no longer work for many people (including myself) because of changes on MS’ backend. This is because the Windows Live Toolbar is being replaced by the Bing Toolbar.http://windowslivehelp.com/thread.aspx?postid=4…

    The link shows a toolbar more similar to the MNS toolbar, yet shows nothing about customization such as adding buttons from Live Gallery as can currently be done with the Live Toolbar.

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