So, just what IS the problem with Windows Phone?

By Kip Kniskern | In Opinion | Posted December 26, 2011 204 comments

mac_vs_pc_2Charlie Kindel (who left Microsoft earlier this year after 21 years, most recently as a Windows Phone General Manager), posted today on an “impedance mismatch” between carriers and device manufacturers, and Windows Phone, where those carriers and OEMs are “reluctant” to push Windows Phone, while Google’s Android has taken an approach that “reduces friction with carriers & device manufacturers at the expense of end users”.

Kindel seems to be implying that Microsoft has taken the road less travelled, choosing to fight it out with the carriers and OEMs while championing the cause of the end user, with good will seemingly winning out in the end:

I would like to believe that at the end of the day the superior end to end experience for the end user matters more than anything.

A number of other tech bloggers have chimed in (on this admittedly slow news day) to offer up their own reasons for Microsoft’s problems with Windows Phone.  Surur from WMPowerUser.com thinks users just want a cheap iPhone knock off, and then MG Siegler chimed in to point out the glaringly obvious, that Microsoft’s problems boiled down to just three words, “way too late”:

But Apple could also afford to do this because they were first to market. When the iPhone launched in 2007, the other smartphones on the market were shit. There was no actual competition for the iPhone. The first Android phones that launched over a year later were a joke.

Contrast that with Windows Phone which launched far too late into the market. Kindel never mentions it, but you simply can’t downplay that fact. Had Windows Phone launched in 2007 or even 2008, the story would have been different. Instead, it launched in late 2010.

Way too late.

Yes, Apple was first, and the iPhone filled a smartphone void, but it also capitalized on years of carefully crafted “Mac vs. PC” ads that endeared Apple to the end user.  Google too has positioned itself as a friendly, fun, and unassuming little company, drawing on the intimate relationship between user and the simple search box.  They’re “safe”, as Robert Scoble explains in another post replying to Kindel.  Being perceived as “cool”, matters, and Microsoft just isn’t cool.  Scoble goes on:

One thing I learned working the counter at several Silicon Valley consumer electronics stores is that there’s only one thing people really care about when it comes to buying things:

Not looking stupid.

Of all the things that consumers care about, we believe that Scoble has nailed their biggest motivator and their biggest fear.  While he goes on to argue that it’s the apps that are drawing consumers to Android and iPhone (and we’re not disputing that here), it’s even more basic than that.  Microsoft could have ALL the apps, but if consumers don’t feel connected, if their friends don’t think they’re cool by showing off a Windows Phone, it’s not going to matter.

Being three years late to the smartphone party isn’t cool (nor is being late, after sputtering for years, to tablets).  Years of sputtering with the Windows Live brand haven’t helped, either, and there doesn’t seem to be much hope that Microsoft will turn that brand around (in fact, there’s some evidence that it may be prepared to drop it altogether), and we won’t even mention Bing’s inability to make a dent in Google’s market dominance, even after years of pouring money into search.

It starts at the top.  Having what’s perceived as a bumbling fool as CEO sets the tone, but at least he has a personality, unlike the group of bland technocrats that are under him, more worried about secrecy than in including consumers in their plans.

In order for Microsoft to turn Windows Phone around, it has to start by turning Microsoft around.  It needs to really embrace becoming a consumer company, to worry less about profit and loss line items, and in “saving” the Windows and Office franchises, and more about creating value for consumers in a way that makes them think they’re aligning with the best company in the world.

Posted December 26th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Category: Opinion
Tags: Windows Phone
  • Kiwuti

    Scoble is right. The only real option is to lose the Windows part and rebrand it. Another thing that would help would be if they actually advertised it. 

    I’ve never once seen a Windows Phone Ad and here in New Zealand all the flyers for the retail chains are only filled with iPhones, and Android..not a Windows Phone in sight.

    • ratnok

      Microsoft spent a half billion dollars advertising Windows Phone. Nobody cared.

      • ArrowSmith

        Cite for that 1/2 billion figure?

        • DennyCrane

          I did read that at some point a few months back. 

      • Brian Kane

        I think the figure was that Kinect + Windows Phone had 500mil set aside for advertising (think of it as a financial allocation).  I don’t think they spent $500mil on advertising Windows Phone.  

        PS – their Android patent royalties are estimated to bring in $680mil per year (and growing), so their “phone” business is still profitable. :)

  • Kiwuti

    Scoble is right. The only real option is to lose the Windows part and rebrand it. Another thing that would help would be if they actually advertised it. 

    I’ve never once seen a Windows Phone Ad and here in New Zealand all the flyers for the retail chains are only filled with iPhones, and Android..not a Windows Phone in sight.

    • Anonymous

      Microsoft spent a half billion dollars advertising Windows Phone. Nobody cared.

      • Anonymous

        Cite for that 1/2 billion figure?

        • that_guy

          I did read that at some point a few months back. 

      • http://profiles.google.com/brotherkane Brian Kane

        I think the figure was that Kinect + Windows Phone had 500mil set aside for advertising (think of it as a financial allocation).  I don’t think they spent $500mil on advertising Windows Phone.  

        PS – their Android patent royalties are estimated to bring in $680mil per year (and growing), so their “phone” business is still profitable. :)

  • Pradeepviswav

    I disagree with Scoble’s point. The app eco-system will contribute to platform device sales only in the early days. Once you cross a level (say 100,000 apps in current scenario), people won’t consider the app factor while buying. How many of us will consider iOS for its rich ecosystem against Android today ?? Very very less. Another example, People buy Windows PC’s / Macs based on their requirement, purchasing power,etc,. not on the no.of desktops apps available.

    • http://www.LiveSide.net Kip Kniskern – LiveSide.net

      Once you buy some significant number of apps, it does matter.  Your next phone is likely to be one that you have $$ invested in apps for, ones you “can’t live without” (see: cool factor).  And I have certainly bought PCs because I knew they would run Office, Photoshop, etc. (which I already owned).

      • DennyCrane

        So true.

        • Jasonmountjoy

          How many paid apps fit in the “can’t live without”? No really, how many PAID apps. I’ve been a heavy smartphone user for 5 years. How many apps have I bought? 10, maximum. I use LOADS of free apps all the time. So I’ll be generous and allow the average user 20 apps they bought. Average cost $2. App “investment”, $40. If you allow that $40 investment to sway your decision on a 12 – 24 month long, $600 phone / contract, you’re a tool.

  • Pradeepviswav

    I disagree with Scoble’s point. The app eco-system will contribute to platform device sales only in the early days. Once you cross a level (say 100,000 apps in current scenario), people won’t consider the app factor while buying. How many of us will consider iOS for its rich ecosystem against Android today ?? Very very less. Another example, People buy Windows PC’s / Macs based on their requirement, purchasing power,etc,. not on the no.of desktops apps available.

    • http://www.LiveSide.net Kip Kniskern – LiveSide.net

      Once you buy some significant number of apps, it does matter.  Your next phone is likely to be one that you have $$ invested in apps for, ones you “can’t live without” (see: cool factor).  And I have certainly bought PCs because I knew they would run Office, Photoshop, etc. (which I already owned).

      • that_guy

        So true.

        • Jasonmountjoy

          How many paid apps fit in the “can’t live without”? No really, how many PAID apps. I’ve been a heavy smartphone user for 5 years. How many apps have I bought? 10, maximum. I use LOADS of free apps all the time. So I’ll be generous and allow the average user 20 apps they bought. Average cost $2. App “investment”, $40. If you allow that $40 investment to sway your decision on a 12 – 24 month long, $600 phone / contract, you’re a tool.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

    The problem for me is the first day I saw that horrible Metro UI, what a peace of crap. So did they announce a production halt yet?

    • Chuckd

      Matter of taste.  Many people actually like it.

    • RoxEroX

      i hate this… but i just have to state it when i see a worthless (and baseless) comment… when i see a comment like this i have to say, “what a peace of crap.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

        Its not really “baseless” you see the UI really does suck. And that is evident by the number of people flocking to the platform. If it was anything like Android it had instant success, But I don’t see this happening hear at all. We are coming up on 2 years after the launch, and frankly its a flop. Its pretty safe to say that the OS/UI is crap. And I’m basing that on 2 years of it being out there. On the other hand Android has beaten even iPhone in market share.

        Windows phone “IS” crap
        Android rules.

        • RoxEroX

          I must admit, android leads the market in malware and fragmentation. This is directly related to consumer ignorance of course. Basically caused by the overwhelming Narcissistic posing drive that feeds their self worth by how many friends, tweets, texts….. etc they can accumulate and occupy their day with.
          Oh……. can we have a moment of silence for all those who work in the Travel Industry please. Gaagler strikes again!
          Thank god the Mobile Informational Call Act of 2011 bill was killed. Must have been a teary day at Google.
          No droidy stuff for me….. security is a must for me.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Ah im not really getting your point, but anyway Android does rule.  As for the “Mobile Informational Call Act of 2011″ it does suck, it would mean less calls from telemarketers for the average user. And as for Google I don’t see why they would care either way. They are making record profits, they also had record activations this holiday.

            Anyway, again i’m sorry for your inevitable WP7 discontinuation.

            As always Android rules.

          • RoxEroX

            BTW….. who makes more $$ of android?  nope! not Google!…… try again.
            the point…. i be into productivity

            time to serve…. play time over… have a good one ~;-p“`

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Have a good one too, dont want to take you away from your waiter job. Just dont tell your customers you have a WP7 they will leave you like a dollar.

        • George

          Windows phone 7 was launched late 2010…
          So, the fact that you can’t count makes your whole “basing my argument on it being out 2 years” basically, bullshit.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Happy New Year, And I can give a rats butt when it came out .  My argument is that WP7 is crap plain and simple, the UI is absolute crap and that’s why its not selling.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

        I also have to add the recent Gartner numbers (Windows phone is at 1.5% market share).  So it went from 7% on release to 5 % a year ago to 1.5% today. Its time to jump ship RoxEroX. You should consider a nice Android handset instead of a failing platform. That makes 2 fails for MS, KIN and Windows Phone.

        • RoxEroX

          cool – i got ‘2’ Likes

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            That’s 2 more than WP7 has, lol.  Its funny cuz its true.

          • RoxEroX

            ….and you lol!

        • George

          Look again. Gartner shows whole Microsoft OS (windows mobile+ windows phone + kin), hence 5% in launch (it was launched in 2010…)
          So that 5% was almost. Completely windows mobile, which is almost
          discontinuied.
          So it is second time your argument doesn’t stand credibility.
          On top of that your “android rules” makes you just a fanboy who apparently can’t even get his facts straight. So I would say troll.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Even looking at it your way “Gartner shows whole Microsoft OS (windows mobile+ windows phone + kin)”, even with all those platforms MS still cant win in the mobile race, heck they have not even stepped foot in the stadium.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk/ Richard Edmonds

            You forget that Android and iOS is dominating the market and the total number of smartphones is increasing. Because Windows Phone hasn’t quite got the growth that competitors have (plus with WinMob and Kin dying out), marketshare change will reflect this. Then again, you’re a simple minded fool so I wouldn’t expect you to comprehensively take into account anything other than “ANDR0ID IS TEH LULZ!!!ONE!!111!!”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            You said it your self,      ” Because Windows Phone hasn’t quite got the growth that competitors have”.   
                          Why? because it 5UCK5.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk/ Richard Edmonds

            No. Because there hasn’t been as much of a marketing push as other platforms have received, not to mention we’ve only seen a handful of Mango handsets so far.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Google hardly advertises their Android platform, yet it skyrocketed to number one in the world. That is becuase in the eyes of the public the Android OS rocks.

            Android rules.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk/ Richard Edmonds

            Because it’s an open platform and carriers can do whatever they like with devices. Personalisation and bloatware are two favourite features for networks. Thus, carriers pushed their own Android beauties, leaving nothing for Google to do. Downside is now the entire platform is fragmented.

            WP is a more tight ship with Microsoft setting hardware requirements and ensuring updates are rolled out across the board within an acceptable time frame.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003386080045 John doe

            Yet Windows Phone is not selling, and Android rules the world. Go figure.

  • Anonymous

    The problem for me is the first day I saw that horrible Metro UI, what a peace of crap. So did they announce a production halt yet?

    • Chuckd

      Matter of taste.  Many people actually like it.

    • Anonymous

      i hate this… but i just have to state it when i see a worthless (and baseless) comment… when i see a comment like this i have to say, “what a peace of crap.”

      • Anonymous

        Its not really “baseless” you see the UI really does suck. And that is evident by the number of people flocking to the platform. If it was anything like Android it had instant success, But I don’t see this happening hear at all. We are coming up on 2 years after the launch, and frankly its a flop. Its pretty safe to say that the OS/UI is crap. And I’m basing that on 2 years of it being out there. On the other hand Android has beaten even iPhone in market share.

        Windows phone “IS” crap
        Android rules.

        • Anonymous

          I must admit, android leads the market in malware and fragmentation. This is directly related to consumer ignorance of course. Basically caused by the overwhelming Narcissistic posing drive that feeds their self worth by how many friends, tweets, texts….. etc they can accumulate and occupy their day with.
          Oh……. can we have a moment of silence for all those who work in the Travel Industry please. Gaagler strikes again!
          Thank god the Mobile Informational Call Act of 2011 bill was killed. Must have been a teary day at Google.
          No droidy stuff for me….. security is a must for me.

          • Anonymous

            Ah im not really getting your point, but anyway Android does rule.  As for the “Mobile Informational Call Act of 2011″ it does suck, it would mean less calls from telemarketers for the average user. And as for Google I don’t see why they would care either way. They are making record profits, they also had record activations this holiday.

            Anyway, again i’m sorry for your inevitable WP7 discontinuation.

            As always Android rules.

          • Anonymous

            BTW….. who makes more $$ of android?  nope! not Google!…… try again.
            the point…. i be into productivity

            time to serve…. play time over… have a good one ~;-p“`

          • Anonymous

            Have a good one too, dont want to take you away from your waiter job. Just dont tell your customers you have a WP7 they will leave you like a dollar.

        • George

          Windows phone 7 was launched late 2010…
          So, the fact that you can’t count makes your whole “basing my argument on it being out 2 years” basically, bullshit.

          • Anonymous

            Happy New Year, And I can give a rats butt when it came out .  My argument is that WP7 is crap plain and simple, the UI is absolute crap and that’s why its not selling.

      • Anonymous

        I also have to add the recent Gartner numbers (Windows phone is at 1.5% market share).  So it went from 7% on release to 5 % a year ago to 1.5% today. Its time to jump ship RoxEroX. You should consider a nice Android handset instead of a failing platform. That makes 2 fails for MS, KIN and Windows Phone.

        • Anonymous

          cool – i got ‘2’ Likes

          • Anonymous

            That’s 2 more than WP7 has, lol.  Its funny cuz its true.

          • Anonymous

            ….and you lol!

        • George

          Look again. Gartner shows whole Microsoft OS (windows mobile+ windows phone + kin), hence 5% in launch (it was launched in 2010…)
          So that 5% was almost. Completely windows mobile, which is almost
          discontinuied.
          So it is second time your argument doesn’t stand credibility.
          On top of that your “android rules” makes you just a fanboy who apparently can’t even get his facts straight. So I would say troll.

          • Anonymous

            Even looking at it your way “Gartner shows whole Microsoft OS (windows mobile+ windows phone + kin)”, even with all those platforms MS still cant win in the mobile race, heck they have not even stepped foot in the stadium.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk Richard Edmonds

            You forget that Android and iOS is dominating the market and the total number of smartphones is increasing. Because Windows Phone hasn’t quite got the growth that competitors have (plus with WinMob and Kin dying out), marketshare change will reflect this. Then again, you’re a simple minded fool so I wouldn’t expect you to comprehensively take into account anything other than “ANDR0ID IS TEH LULZ!!!ONE!!111!!”.

          • Anonymous

            You said it your self,      ” Because Windows Phone hasn’t quite got the growth that competitors have”.   
                          Why? because it 5UCK5.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk Richard Edmonds

            No. Because there hasn’t been as much of a marketing push as other platforms have received, not to mention we’ve only seen a handful of Mango handsets so far.

          • Anonymous

            Google hardly advertises their Android platform, yet it skyrocketed to number one in the world. That is becuase in the eyes of the public the Android OS rocks.

            Android rules.

          • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk Richard Edmonds

            Because it’s an open platform and carriers can do whatever they like with devices. Personalisation and bloatware are two favourite features for networks. Thus, carriers pushed their own Android beauties, leaving nothing for Google to do. Downside is now the entire platform is fragmented.

            WP is a more tight ship with Microsoft setting hardware requirements and ensuring updates are rolled out across the board within an acceptable time frame.

          • Anonymous

            Yet Windows Phone is not selling, and Android rules the world. Go figure.

  • Thomas Mc

    “Microsoft” is what makes people reboot their computers 10 times a day, they don’t want that garbage on their phone!

    • ArrowSmith

      I only had to reboot my Windows machine yesterday because of power failure. Other then that, an occasional reboot because of Adobe update. Stop the FUD.

    • philklc

      No, crappy device drivers do.

    • Adamv

      ROFL I haven’t rebooted my computer 10 times a day since Windows XP came out.  Come on LOL.  I reboot only for updates and that’s 2 to 3 times a month.  That hasn’t been the case for most, for years.  I think Windows Phone is a slick mobile OS.  But I see at least a couple reasons why people won’t buy.  First, you’ve invested money in apps, which I have.  Am I going to rebuy them to switch?  No.  The live always updating tiles. Sure they’re cool, But do I want to be locked into that day in and day out?  No.  Thats the same two reasons I woud not buy and iPhone.  With my Android, I can make my phone look any way I want.  If I get sick of a certain app launcher, I can switch it up.  I want that control over what I see.  I want control over where I get my apps.   Windows Phone says “Your a sheep, follow the herd, you don’t need to customize”  Its another iPhone in that respect.

      • Steve

        You can blame drivers, adobe, or that darn google machine…my “windows based system” at work isn’t stable…the average “user” sees it as a Microsoft problem…”to the victor goes the spoils”….Microsoft has a monopoly on desk top operating systems, and when there are problems they will get blamed….I have problems EVERY DAY with microsoft operating system at work….

        • why bash

          Haven’t had a single problem with any laptop/desktop machine running windows since maybe the year 2003. Blame your companies shit IT department.

          • Jasonmountjoy

            I work in IT support and wouldn’t dream of advocating hatred of IT support. But if your machine genuinely reboots up to 10 times a day, you need to be kicking off at the IT Department. That really is poor. And for info, Windows Phone 7 doesn’t reboot 10 times a day either, so regardless, your point is moot.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Charles-Zigmund/100000590089238 Charles Zigmund

        I had plenty of crashes and reboots with Windows XP. Windows 7 is worse than XP at organizing folders in libraries. Getting sub-libraries where I did not create them. My Music library has a self-created sub-library containing my Documents Library. The Library system is full of bugs. Microsoft should be ashamed of itself replacing XP, which was fairly sturdy, with this piece of crap W 7. After experiencing that, who in their right mind would buy one their phones?

        • Taha Veziroğlu

          You just dont know how to use libraries. Its the best way to organize documents and media for me.

    • RoxEroX

      absolutely worthless comment…..

    • http://www.ratdiary.com/ spragued

      Trollish comment is trollish.

    • RoxEroX

      why would anyone want to reply to this claim? lol! but hey I’m hooked…. statements like this does add some giggles to my day. there are just those that should be denied the use of technology beyond an Etch A Sketch. if you are not sure who they should be, just ask them to make themselves invisible. and if they cover their eyes, they’re one them.

  • Thomas Mc

    “Microsoft” is what makes people reboot their computers 10 times a day, they don’t want that garbage on their phone!

    • Anonymous

      I only had to reboot my Windows machine yesterday because of power failure. Other then that, an occasional reboot because of Adobe update. Stop the FUD.

    • Anonymous

      No, crappy device drivers do.

    • Adamv

      ROFL I haven’t rebooted my computer 10 times a day since Windows XP came out.  Come on LOL.  I reboot only for updates and that’s 2 to 3 times a month.  That hasn’t been the case for most, for years.  I think Windows Phone is a slick mobile OS.  But I see at least a couple reasons why people won’t buy.  First, you’ve invested money in apps, which I have.  Am I going to rebuy them to switch?  No.  The live always updating tiles. Sure they’re cool, But do I want to be locked into that day in and day out?  No.  Thats the same two reasons I woud not buy and iPhone.  With my Android, I can make my phone look any way I want.  If I get sick of a certain app launcher, I can switch it up.  I want that control over what I see.  I want control over where I get my apps.   Windows Phone says “Your a sheep, follow the herd, you don’t need to customize”  Its another iPhone in that respect.

      • Steve

        You can blame drivers, adobe, or that darn google machine…my “windows based system” at work isn’t stable…the average “user” sees it as a Microsoft problem…”to the victor goes the spoils”….Microsoft has a monopoly on desk top operating systems, and when there are problems they will get blamed….I have problems EVERY DAY with microsoft operating system at work….

        • why bash

          Haven’t had a single problem with any laptop/desktop machine running windows since maybe the year 2003. Blame your companies shit IT department.

          • Jasonmountjoy

            I work in IT support and wouldn’t dream of advocating hatred of IT support. But if your machine genuinely reboots up to 10 times a day, you need to be kicking off at the IT Department. That really is poor. And for info, Windows Phone 7 doesn’t reboot 10 times a day either, so regardless, your point is moot.

      • charles zigmund

        I had plenty of crashes and reboots with Windows XP. Windows 7 is worse than XP at organizing folders in libraries. Getting sub-libraries where I did not create them. My Music library has a self-created sub-library containing my Documents Library. The Library system is full of bugs. Microsoft should be ashamed of itself replacing XP, which was fairly sturdy, with this piece of crap W 7. After experiencing that, who in their right mind would buy one their phones?

        • http://twitter.com/ama_neden ama neden

          You just dont know how to use libraries. Its the best way to organize documents and media for me.

    • Anonymous

      absolutely worthless comment…..

    • http://www.ratdiary.com spragued

      Trollish comment is trollish.

    • Anonymous

      why would anyone want to reply to this claim? lol! but hey I’m hooked…. statements like this does add some giggles to my day. there are just those that should be denied the use of technology beyond an Etch A Sketch. if you are not sure who they should be, just ask them to make themselves invisible. and if they cover their eyes, they’re one them.

  • Dvc

    I have a wm5 and a wm6.5 professional phone just sitting in a box as reminders why I will never ever buy a Microsoft phone again. They had their shot to make a great product before Apple and Google did, instead they as well as RIM, Symbian, and Palm all decide to fall asleep at the wheel. TOO BAD ITS TOO LATE!

    • tropolite

      You seriously need to try WP Dvc. I went from an Omnia Icon 2 (WM6.5), thinking the worst… but I couldn’t be happier that I bit the bullet and stopped listening to propoganda. It is truly MS’s best work!

    • matthewthepc

      Dvc, might I suggest that instead of going around badmouthing operating systems you haven’t tried, you actually enter into ATT, Verizon, etc. and try a WP7.5? You might just be surprised ;P Now, I agree that there are many reasons why WP7 isn’t selling well, but it’s not because the operating system is shit.

    • JSYOUNG571

      I agree with you Dvc.  I too have two wm phones by Microsoft that reminds me why it is so hard to trust them again. The 6.5 wm phone being the most painful reminder with hardly no updates and a long list of discontinued services within a year after I brought the phone. The mistreatment of watching Microsoft produce apps for the Apple iPhone and none for their own platform. The poor release and outdated EAS for Hotmail and Calendar sync to work on our WM phones. Microsoft seems to forget that they had a following and left everyone with a bad taste in their mouth with Windows Phones. When Windows Phone 7 came out, it sat in a coma for a year before it could even do the basics of our old WM phones. Most people as well as myself had gotten fed up and have jumped ship onto Apple and Android. While I am still A Micorsoft fan of Hotmail, Messenger, Skydrive and a whole list of service, who wants to sit through another year while Microsoft takes their time getting their shit together for a Windows Phone 7 that is just coming around to where all the other comptetors are.

  • Dvc

    I have a wm5 and a wm6.5 professional phone just sitting in a box as reminders why I will never ever buy a Microsoft phone again. They had their shot to make a great product before Apple and Google did, instead they as well as RIM, Symbian, and Palm all decide to fall asleep at the wheel. TOO BAD ITS TOO LATE!

    • http://twitter.com/TroySchuster Troy Schuster

      You seriously need to try WP Dvc. I went from an Omnia Icon 2 (WM6.5), thinking the worst… but I couldn’t be happier that I bit the bullet and stopped listening to propoganda. It is truly MS’s best work!

    • Anonymous

      Dvc, might I suggest that instead of going around badmouthing operating systems you haven’t tried, you actually enter into ATT, Verizon, etc. and try a WP7.5? You might just be surprised ;P Now, I agree that there are many reasons why WP7 isn’t selling well, but it’s not because the operating system is shit.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with you Dvc.  I too have two wm phones by Microsoft that reminds me why it is so hard to trust them again. The 6.5 wm phone being the most painful reminder with hardly no updates and a long list of discontinued services within a year after I brought the phone. The mistreatment of watching Microsoft produce apps for the Apple iPhone and none for their own platform. The poor release and outdated EAS for Hotmail and Calendar sync to work on our WM phones. Microsoft seems to forget that they had a following and left everyone with a bad taste in their mouth with Windows Phones. When Windows Phone 7 came out, it sat in a coma for a year before it could even do the basics of our old WM phones. Most people as well as myself had gotten fed up and have jumped ship onto Apple and Android. While I am still A Micorsoft fan of Hotmail, Messenger, Skydrive and a whole list of service, who wants to sit through another year while Microsoft takes their time getting their shit together for a Windows Phone 7 that is just coming around to where all the other comptetors are.

  • Guest

    I can understand the ease-of-use of the iPhone.  But I also understand that the iPhone does have some limitations.  I’ve tried a few Android devices, and I’m not impressed with it … at all.  The Android is a phone for geekers/tweakers.  Just this month I bought a WP 7.5, and really, really like it.  With a couple of small annoyances, it really is simple to use.

  • Guest

    I can understand the ease-of-use of the iPhone.  But I also understand that the iPhone does have some limitations.  I’ve tried a few Android devices, and I’m not impressed with it … at all.  The Android is a phone for geekers/tweakers.  Just this month I bought a WP 7.5, and really, really like it.  With a couple of small annoyances, it really is simple to use.

  • starkenator

    WP7 has been beat at the retail level. If they want to sell phones they need to incentivise retail sales people. Retailers make far more on Android handsets than the iPhone which has led to the rapid growth of Android market share.

    • http://www.ratdiary.com/ spragued

      The first worthwhile comment I’ve seen in this thread.

  • Anonymous

    WP7 has been beat at the retail level. If they want to sell phones they need to incentivise retail sales people. Retailers make far more on Android handsets than the iPhone which has led to the rapid growth of Android market share.

    • http://www.ratdiary.com spragued

      The first worthwhile comment I’ve seen in this thread.

  • Chuckd

    Tried a new Windows Mobile phone.  Wonderful experience as far as it goes, but the lack of any VPN client or hooks dooms it from serious volume business adoption except with pure Microsoft shops.  Getting an answer of whether this capability is even planned is impossible.  This seems very arrogant on the part of Microsoft.  Many people want Microsoft to succeed, but this is way too frustrating.

    • Jasonmountjoy

      I love WP7 in general. Due to upgrade my 2 year old HTC HD2 (incidentally running WP7 in preference to any of the NAND or SD Android builds that I’ve tried). But your point holds. No sign of a Citrix receiver plugin and no true SIP client (to predispose of the inevitable comebacks, Skype is not a true VOIP / SIP client that can work with an in-house telephony system over WiFi). This gap in functionality (not withstanding my above comments about the cost of buying into a specific app ecosystem) is making me think long and hard about the direction to go in.

  • Chuckd

    Tried a new Windows Mobile phone.  Wonderful experience as far as it goes, but the lack of any VPN client or hooks dooms it from serious volume business adoption except with pure Microsoft shops.  Getting an answer of whether this capability is even planned is impossible.  This seems very arrogant on the part of Microsoft.  Many people want Microsoft to succeed, but this is way too frustrating.

    • Jasonmountjoy

      I love WP7 in general. Due to upgrade my 2 year old HTC HD2 (incidentally running WP7 in preference to any of the NAND or SD Android builds that I’ve tried). But your point holds. No sign of a Citrix receiver plugin and no true SIP client (to predispose of the inevitable comebacks, Skype is not a true VOIP / SIP client that can work with an in-house telephony system over WiFi). This gap in functionality (not withstanding my above comments about the cost of buying into a specific app ecosystem) is making me think long and hard about the direction to go in.

  • tropolite

    What’s wrong? It’s articles like these – the negative spin… It has nothing to do with the OS (it is the best I’ve ever used out of 15+yrs of using near every OS out there). It is The most enjoyable handset I’ve ever used.

    There is nothing wrong with the naming of the product ‘WindowsPhone’. If bloggers and those that write articles for the public get things right to begin with and not mistake WP7 as a rehash of WindowsMobile (which some editors were doing).

    IMHO, would’ve reserved ‘Kinect’ as a brand for WP and used something else for the Kinect as it is (something like XSault or Xmotion).

    And as far as writing off new OS’s onto the mobile device scene – come on.  We really needed something new and with a fresh design instead of stupid icons.

    What IS wrong is the lack of 2nd Gen hardware available!! Mango has been out for a while now, but in Oz (and I’d hazard a guess NZ @0612cdd7c12e75a6e8e7290725ae80d3:disqus may need to clarify that but I was only just there a couple weeks ago), none of our carriers stock 2nd gen units, and you can only buy a couple brands outright from third party suppliers. I’m all for ‘getting the hardware right’ but I really think Nokia (and other manufacturers) are dragging their heals with releasing these new handsets. 

    In other countries people are taking notice and buying up. With the new handsets and a marketing campaign to promote the OS and train staff and carriers (eg Operation ‘Rolling Thunder’ shouldn’t just be for the States it should be rolling over the globe), then there is every reason WindowsPhone will succeed.

    Did I like WP7 when I first saw it? No, I hesitantly bought one as I felt to critique it properly you have to experience it. Only after the the first day of having it in my hand I found that this was MY Phone, not just everyone elses. It was a personal experience with the ME tile and interacting so easily with my social networks – fantastic.

    As the saying goes, ‘Don’t knock till you TRY it’. Seriously.
     

    • DennyCrane

      I have trouble believing this. I read Tech news every day and know that WP7 isn’t Windows Mobile. I honestly don’t even hate Metro UI. I simply distrust Microsoft because of IE/Monopolistic practices/ their history of having to have a piece of every pie. I simply dislike the company as a whole. Point being: Nobody really mistakes WP7 for Windows Mobile.

      • tropolite

        Not sure which of my comments you are replying to, stab in the dark WindowsPhone being mistaken for another WindowsMobile flavor. Initially people/bloggers assumed MS just rewritten a few lines of code and relabelled, which couldn’t be further from the truth.. I still see that happening in some blogs but not so much now that people are starting to actually try the OS themselves now…

        MS is a software company and they are in the business of developing. I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be involved in this part of the industry. (crap, I’m sounding like a MS staffer)

      • Johan Petersson

        Google is the new Microsoft, as of 1995.  If you don’t like MS monopolistic practices, how can you live with Google then?

        • Guest

          They successfully communicate themself as “friend” of the peoples and know to make the right friends, the influential figures in community.

          Meanwhile Microsoft is hated as much as the bankers and capitalists in a “they’re the source of all our suffering” way.

      • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk/ Richard Edmonds

        Google, Apple and Microsoft are all monopolistic beasts. Then again, so are supermarket chains, et all.

  • http://twitter.com/TroySchuster Troy Schuster

    What’s wrong? It’s articles like these – the negative spin… It has nothing to do with the OS (it is the best I’ve ever used out of 15+yrs of using near every OS out there). It is The most enjoyable handset I’ve ever used.

    There is nothing wrong with the naming of the product ‘WindowsPhone’. If bloggers and those that write articles for the public get things right to begin with and not mistake WP7 as a rehash of WindowsMobile (which some editors were doing).

    IMHO, would’ve reserved ‘Kinect’ as a brand for WP and used something else for the Kinect as it is (something like XSault or Xmotion).

    And as far as writing off new OS’s onto the mobile device scene – come on.  We really needed something new and with a fresh design instead of stupid icons.

    What IS wrong is the lack of 2nd Gen hardware available!! Mango has been out for a while now, but in Oz (and I’d hazard a guess NZ @0612cdd7c12e75a6e8e7290725ae80d3:disqus may need to clarify that but I was only just there a couple weeks ago), none of our carriers stock 2nd gen units, and you can only buy a couple brands outright from third party suppliers. I’m all for ‘getting the hardware right’ but I really think Nokia (and other manufacturers) are dragging their heals with releasing these new handsets. 

    In other countries people are taking notice and buying up. With the new handsets and a marketing campaign to promote the OS and train staff and carriers (eg Operation ‘Rolling Thunder’ shouldn’t just be for the States it should be rolling over the globe), then there is every reason WindowsPhone will succeed.

    Did I like WP7 when I first saw it? No, I hesitantly bought one as I felt to critique it properly you have to experience it. Only after the the first day of having it in my hand I found that this was MY Phone, not just everyone elses. It was a personal experience with the ME tile and interacting so easily with my social networks – fantastic.

    As the saying goes, ‘Don’t knock till you TRY it’. Seriously.
     

    • that_guy

      I have trouble believing this. I read Tech news every day and know that WP7 isn’t Windows Mobile. I honestly don’t even hate Metro UI. I simply distrust Microsoft because of IE/Monopolistic practices/ their history of having to have a piece of every pie. I simply dislike the company as a whole. Point being: Nobody really mistakes WP7 for Windows Mobile.

      • http://twitter.com/TroySchuster Troy Schuster

        Not sure which of my comments you are replying to, stab in the dark WindowsPhone being mistaken for another WindowsMobile flavor. Initially people/bloggers assumed MS just rewritten a few lines of code and relabelled, which couldn’t be further from the truth.. I still see that happening in some blogs but not so much now that people are starting to actually try the OS themselves now…

        MS is a software company and they are in the business of developing. I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be involved in this part of the industry. (crap, I’m sounding like a MS staffer)

      • Johan Pettersson

        Google is the new Microsoft, as of 1995.  If you don’t like MS monopolistic practices, how can you live with Google then?

        • Guest

          They successfully communicate themself as “friend” of the peoples and know to make the right friends, the influential figures in community.

          Meanwhile Microsoft is hated as much as the bankers and capitalists in a “they’re the source of all our suffering” way.

      • http://www.richedmonds.co.uk Richard Edmonds

        Google, Apple and Microsoft are all monopolistic beasts. Then again, so are supermarket chains, et all.

  • ArrowSmith

    As far as anyone knows, Microsoft hasn’t spent more then $100 million on WP7 advertising to date.

  • Anonymous

    As far as anyone knows, Microsoft hasn’t spent more then $100 million on WP7 advertising to date.

  • Runner2009

    My 13-year old said he wanted a Windows phone because of X-box live (the only cool brand MS has left)

    In the end he choose an iPhone only because more kids had it and his sister’s friends who he would like to impress have iPhones

    Its all about the coolness

    • Dallashulsey

      Indeed, Xbox is the only cool brand Microsoft has left. With the recent updates to the Xbox dashboard, Microsoft finally seems to be aware of this. The update includes bringing the metro tiles and the Bing brand to Xbox in an attempt to link Xbox to other Microsoft services. As usual, the company is late; they should have done this some time ago.

  • Anonymous

    My 13-year old said he wanted a Windows phone because of X-box live (the only cool brand MS has left)

    In the end he choose an iPhone only because more kids had it and his sister’s friends who he would like to impress have iPhones

    Its all about the coolness

    • Dallashulsey

      Indeed, Xbox is the only cool brand Microsoft has left. With the recent updates to the Xbox dashboard, Microsoft finally seems to be aware of this. The update includes bringing the metro tiles and the Bing brand to Xbox in an attempt to link Xbox to other Microsoft services. As usual, the company is late; they should have done this some time ago.

  • pappawtom

    Microsoft could advertise until they are blue in the face but would it truly help?  No.  People make up their minds about products by what others say more than anything else.  I have a Windows Phone and really like it.  It works pretty much the same way as my desktop.  Easy to transition to a smartphone that works like your desktop wouldn’t you say?  Right now the talk is about WP7 but in a few months Windows 8 will be out and with it the phones, xbox, etc. will work together in ways that will be easy for people to comprehend and with Microsoft already on so many computers all over the world people who use computers will naturally flock to the operating system that is so much like what they already have.  Think it won’t happen?  Watch and see when it finally happens.  It may not take off fast at first but it will happen and soon.

    • DennyCrane

      Two years ago, this would have been a perfect reason for a phone, but now that everything is in the cloud, Microsoft’s advantage in this sense is minimized. I’m sure Apple and Google were thinking exactly this when they built their cloud platforms.

      • Ukumio

        And what is wrong with Skydrive may I ask? I use it daily on my phone and I use Mesh (which uses Skydrive) to share files with my co-worker as I design and he codes, its easier to save a file onto a mesh shared folder then to save and upload, and since we live on different sides of the globe it makes it really easy to work on projects together.

        • DennyCrane

          I do the same thing with Google Docs, and I’m sure Skydrive is great, too. My only point was that this minimizes the advantage of Windows desktop connectivity. They are on a level playing field with the Apple and Google now that the “cloud” has become more pervasive.

  • Anonymous

    Microsoft could advertise until they are blue in the face but would it truly help?  No.  People make up their minds about products by what others say more than anything else.  I have a Windows Phone and really like it.  It works pretty much the same way as my desktop.  Easy to transition to a smartphone that works like your desktop wouldn’t you say?  Right now the talk is about WP7 but in a few months Windows 8 will be out and with it the phones, xbox, etc. will work together in ways that will be easy for people to comprehend and with Microsoft already on so many computers all over the world people who use computers will naturally flock to the operating system that is so much like what they already have.  Think it won’t happen?  Watch and see when it finally happens.  It may not take off fast at first but it will happen and soon.

    • that_guy

      Two years ago, this would have been a perfect reason for a phone, but now that everything is in the cloud, Microsoft’s advantage in this sense is minimized. I’m sure Apple and Google were thinking exactly this when they built their cloud platforms.

      • Ukumio

        And what is wrong with Skydrive may I ask? I use it daily on my phone and I use Mesh (which uses Skydrive) to share files with my co-worker as I design and he codes, its easier to save a file onto a mesh shared folder then to save and upload, and since we live on different sides of the globe it makes it really easy to work on projects together.

        • that_guy

          I do the same thing with Google Docs, and I’m sure Skydrive is great, too. My only point was that this minimizes the advantage of Windows desktop connectivity. They are on a level playing field with the Apple and Google now that the “cloud” has become more pervasive.

  • what’s the point of bashing?

    WP is great. It suits me, suits the rest of my family, works fast, has the apps I need, looks cool, and has great phones. I get the feeling once the figures come out for this holiday season, we will see WP having moved a lot more devices to consumers.

  • what’s the point of bashing?

    WP is great. It suits me, suits the rest of my family, works fast, has the apps I need, looks cool, and has great phones. I get the feeling once the figures come out for this holiday season, we will see WP having moved a lot more devices to consumers.

  • deeznetz

    The Web interface is crap. People want to experience the internet the same way they do on a computer. Windows phone is nice, but Microsoft has always failed at providing a decent Web experience. iPhone and Android nailed that and their devices sell more because of it.

    • why bash?

      IE on windows phone is far superior to safari. Just do a google search on the topic.

      • deeznetz

        My girlfriend has a wp7. I don’t need a review to tell me what I can see for myself. Internet Exploder is crap. Safari may have its faults, but I use Android. My stock honeycomb browser on my tablet never let’s me down. And my stock browser on my low end Android phone displays Web pages perfectly, while wrapping text to fit my screen.

        • wp7 user

          Gee, this webpage looks terrible on the wp7 phone I’m using right now. The text isn’t wrapped or anything!

          No but seriously. That’s your argument that IE 9 is bad? Text wrapping? Seems to be working fine. Name one website where you can see ie fail.

          • RoxEroX

            advice on replying to posers like this poster you are replying to.
            “Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat the crap out of you with experience.”

          • deeznetz

            There is no substance to your reply. And what exactly am I posing as? An informed consumer? Name calling really shows the level of your intelligence.

          • RoxEroX

            164 and I hate to brag….. and it is a description without using the word “crap”.

            have a good one….. time to be productive… enjoyed though.

          • deeznetz

            Its obvious you work for Microsoft doing damage control. how about you google how when using a zune pass the phone locks up and requires you to pull the battery? The one reason my gf went with wp7 was the zune functionality, and it doesn’t work! Its like buying an iPhone and the iPod part won’t work. Wp7 is disappointing, just like windows mobile. And the Web experience is like working on a palm pilot. I would recommend an iPhone over a windows phone any day. Microsoft just doesn’t have their finger on the pulse of consumers in America. That’s why wp7 has a mealy 1% market share. Windows phone was dead before it ever launched.

          • Gluhman

            Zune works fine for me on WP. I use it every day, streaming and local files. No problems ever.

  • deeznetz

    The Web interface is crap. People want to experience the internet the same way they do on a computer. Windows phone is nice, but Microsoft has always failed at providing a decent Web experience. iPhone and Android nailed that and their devices sell more because of it.

    • why bash?

      IE on windows phone is far superior to safari. Just do a google search on the topic.

      • deeznetz

        My girlfriend has a wp7. I don’t need a review to tell me what I can see for myself. Internet Exploder is crap. Safari may have its faults, but I use Android. My stock honeycomb browser on my tablet never let’s me down. And my stock browser on my low end Android phone displays Web pages perfectly, while wrapping text to fit my screen.

        • wp7 user

          Gee, this webpage looks terrible on the wp7 phone I’m using right now. The text isn’t wrapped or anything!

          No but seriously. That’s your argument that IE 9 is bad? Text wrapping? Seems to be working fine. Name one website where you can see ie fail.

          • Anonymous

            advice on replying to posers like this poster you are replying to.
            “Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat the crap out of you with experience.”

          • deeznetz

            There is no substance to your reply. And what exactly am I posing as? An informed consumer? Name calling really shows the level of your intelligence.

          • Anonymous

            164 and I hate to brag….. and it is a description without using the word “crap”.

            have a good one….. time to be productive… enjoyed though.

          • deeznetz

            Its obvious you work for Microsoft doing damage control. how about you google how when using a zune pass the phone locks up and requires you to pull the battery? The one reason my gf went with wp7 was the zune functionality, and it doesn’t work! Its like buying an iPhone and the iPod part won’t work. Wp7 is disappointing, just like windows mobile. And the Web experience is like working on a palm pilot. I would recommend an iPhone over a windows phone any day. Microsoft just doesn’t have their finger on the pulse of consumers in America. That’s why wp7 has a mealy 1% market share. Windows phone was dead before it ever launched.

          • Gluhman

            Zune works fine for me on WP. I use it every day, streaming and local files. No problems ever.

  • Runner2009

    My 13-year old wanted a Microsoft phone only because he could use X-Box live with it – MS’s only cool brand.

    In the end, he choose an iPhone over Microsoft’s phone because more kids have the iPhone and his older sisters cool friends all have them and he would give up X-Box live to be embraced by their coolness and beauty

    We can have all the Marketing gurus and quantitative studies in the world being Communicated and it will not change the above scenario that played out in millions of household across the world this Holiday season.

    Scoble could have stayed at home and talked to his friends kids to have gained this bit of insight
    runner2009
    Burt Gordon

    • tropolite

      It sounds like testosterone won out, not iPhone. I believe he could still have Xbox Live on his iPhone too. It gives a feel to what the WP experience as far as interface is concerned, but on an iPhone. When he doesn’t have ‘what impresses girls’ on his mind he can make a more level headed decision :-)

      Funny how this generation (as was others) want to be ‘different’ and non-conformist, but tend not to be when looking at the big picture…

  • Anonymous

    My 13-year old wanted a Microsoft phone only because he could use X-Box live with it – MS’s only cool brand.

    In the end, he choose an iPhone over Microsoft’s phone because more kids have the iPhone and his older sisters cool friends all have them and he would give up X-Box live to be embraced by their coolness and beauty

    We can have all the Marketing gurus and quantitative studies in the world being Communicated and it will not change the above scenario that played out in millions of household across the world this Holiday season.

    Scoble could have stayed at home and talked to his friends kids to have gained this bit of insight
    runner2009
    Burt Gordon

    • http://twitter.com/TroySchuster Troy Schuster

      It sounds like testosterone won out, not iPhone. I believe he could still have Xbox Live on his iPhone too. It gives a feel to what the WP experience as far as interface is concerned, but on an iPhone. When he doesn’t have ‘what impresses girls’ on his mind he can make a more level headed decision :-)

      Funny how this generation (as was others) want to be ‘different’ and non-conformist, but tend not to be when looking at the big picture…

  • Tag

    I’ve had an iPhone for nearly 2 years now and currently have the 4S. Over Christmas weekend I got a chance to play with WP7 Mango and was pretty impressed with it. To the point where I thought to myself, if this ever gains traction and they keep adding more functionality I would dump the iPhone for it. It was that nice.

  • Tag

    I’ve had an iPhone for nearly 2 years now and currently have the 4S. Over Christmas weekend I got a chance to play with WP7 Mango and was pretty impressed with it. To the point where I thought to myself, if this ever gains traction and they keep adding more functionality I would dump the iPhone for it. It was that nice.

  • Ramsh

    I care less about Windows, anways, the brand “WINDOWS” is taking the phone down

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shameer-Mulji/1685212657 Shameer Mulji

      I totally agree.  They need to rebrand their smartphone / tablet platform.  Windows is associated with business PC’s.  Microsoft needs to have a new brand for their OS to be associated with the new generation of mobile devices.

  • Ramsh

    I care less about Windows, anways, the brand “WINDOWS” is taking the phone down

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shameer-Mulji/1685212657 Shameer Mulji

      I totally agree.  They need to rebrand their smartphone / tablet platform.  Windows is associated with business PC’s.  Microsoft needs to have a new brand for their OS to be associated with the new generation of mobile devices.

  • http://twitter.com/bradshawhistory John Bradshaw

    The problem with Microsoft Windows Phone is the “Microsoft” part, which this article really nails.

  • http://twitter.com/bradshawhistory John Bradshaw

    The problem with Microsoft Windows Phone is the “Microsoft” part, which this article really nails.

  • Generalkidd

    It’s not exactly too late for Microsoft yet. The real problem with Windows Phone 7 is the lack of significant advertising. I rarely ever see any ads for Windows Phones. A lot of people simply aren’t aware of the existence of Windows Phone 7. Microsoft needs to increase consumer awareness.

    At this point, Microsoft’s only hope is in the business & enterprise sector. Now that RIM’s BlackBerry phones are failing and could soon become a thing of the past, Microsoft will have a chance to claim RIM’s dominance in the business sector. Currently, Black Berries are the most popular phones used in businesses. If Microsoft can win over the corporations, they’ll have a chance to spark consumer interest/awareness if most businesses approve of Windows Phones. But Microsoft has to hurry because iPhones are starting to chip away at RIM’s dominance in the business market.

    Windows Phone isn’t that bad for business use either. It’s got all the essentials like Microsoft Office and Outlook which are commonly used by businesses. So if Microsoft can make businesses more aware of the new features of Windows Phone, then they’ll have a chance. This is probably their last chance though. Windows Phone can’t piggy back off of Xbox forever.

  • Generalkidd

    It’s not exactly too late for Microsoft yet. The real problem with Windows Phone 7 is the lack of significant advertising. I rarely ever see any ads for Windows Phones. A lot of people simply aren’t aware of the existence of Windows Phone 7. Microsoft needs to increase consumer awareness.

    At this point, Microsoft’s only hope is in the business & enterprise sector. Now that RIM’s BlackBerry phones are failing and could soon become a thing of the past, Microsoft will have a chance to claim RIM’s dominance in the business sector. Currently, Black Berries are the most popular phones used in businesses. If Microsoft can win over the corporations, they’ll have a chance to spark consumer interest/awareness if most businesses approve of Windows Phones. But Microsoft has to hurry because iPhones are starting to chip away at RIM’s dominance in the business market.

    Windows Phone isn’t that bad for business use either. It’s got all the essentials like Microsoft Office and Outlook which are commonly used by businesses. So if Microsoft can make businesses more aware of the new features of Windows Phone, then they’ll have a chance. This is probably their last chance though. Windows Phone can’t piggy back off of Xbox forever.

  • Mario Albertico

    The problem can be characterized by the recent marketing campaigns of the big players (Apple, Google, and Microsoft): we have Siri and the little Android robot being presented like the second coming, while Microsoft decides to tell us “it’s a great time to be a family.” STFU…who the hell thinks it’s a great time in general right now??–aren’t most countries experiencing some kind of economic turmoil? You can’t make up for a lack of showmanship by resorting to a flat out line of “it’s a great time, buy a Windows Phone.” No, you have to romanticize it like Apple and help Santa deliver presents around the world, or blast the TV with tens of Android commercials and “cute” little green robots. It’s all about marketing; the millions they claimed were going to be spent now seem like were simply wasted on tacky, cheesy, uneventful, forgettable ads. They’ve got a great product, but they’re doing nothing to show it off properly…

  • Mario Albertico

    The problem can be characterized by the recent marketing campaigns of the big players (Apple, Google, and Microsoft): we have Siri and the little Android robot being presented like the second coming, while Microsoft decides to tell us “it’s a great time to be a family.” STFU…who the hell thinks it’s a great time in general right now??–aren’t most countries experiencing some kind of economic turmoil? You can’t make up for a lack of showmanship by resorting to a flat out line of “it’s a great time, buy a Windows Phone.” No, you have to romanticize it like Apple and help Santa deliver presents around the world, or blast the TV with tens of Android commercials and “cute” little green robots. It’s all about marketing; the millions they claimed were going to be spent now seem like were simply wasted on tacky, cheesy, uneventful, forgettable ads. They’ve got a great product, but they’re doing nothing to show it off properly…

  • JazzTheSoul

    You guys don’t get it: WP7 may be the strongest mobile platform out there. It may have all the apps of the world. It won’t gain too much traction because IT IS NOT COOL! microsoft and windows is not as cool as Apple iPhone or Google Android. As long as long WP7 lacks the cool factor among end users, it won’t gain that much traction. And that is I thing what the author means in this article

  • JazzTheSoul

    You guys don’t get it: WP7 may be the strongest mobile platform out there. It may have all the apps of the world. It won’t gain too much traction because IT IS NOT COOL! microsoft and windows is not as cool as Apple iPhone or Google Android. As long as long WP7 lacks the cool factor among end users, it won’t gain that much traction. And that is I thing what the author means in this article

  • Ju4nj3

    I’m a IT administrator, desktop and web .NET developer for many years and I was interested on Windows Phone some months ago to develop WP7 applications using the same technologies I know.

    I’ve been using WP7 for months and I was in love with the phone, but also I got tired for many aspects and I want to expose the decision to switching back to iPhone a few weeks ago.

    Positive:
    – I love the speed of WP7
    – Boots in seconds
    – Music hub with Zune pass
    – Social networks integrated with contacts on the phone
    – Cloud and Live services
    – Mailing is also very fast
    – Image hub
    – Xbox live.
    – Wifi sync with Zune desktop app.
    – Apps downloaded on web are installed automatically on the phone.
    – Bing
    – Microsoft Tellme.

    Negative:
    – There are a lot of crap on the marketplace, a very few good apps (in numbers). There is no mininum of quality set on the marketplace.
    – Expensive prices: Angry Birds costs on iPhone 0,79 €, in the Marketplace costs 2,99 €. The same for the rest of games and apps. Seriously, I can’t understand this. Xbox Live is not enough reason for this.
    – Metro UI looks good but isn’t mature in some aspects. A few apps look impressive and have enough quality to beat other platforms. The rest looks very crude, ugly and crappy. We are on the XXI century, we need and want rich UIs, in some aspects Metro looks so old. Windows 8 goes the same bad way.
    – No VPN since came out. For the 99% of users is ok but, this is unacceptable for me, this is the MAIN reason to switching back.
    – Tethering is the other reason. My Omnia 7 doesn’t support it officially and that sucks for one year old phone. Yes, it supports doing some tricks, but this is another question.
    – Twitter official app is crap against others official on other platforms.
    – Whatsapp official app is bad too. It’s so slow switching back to the app even on multitask. It is so hard to have a good conversation doing other things on the phone. I explain this because is the same way I feel on other apps.
    – Youtube official app is a link to web. That’s a joke, man. Instead, MetroTube is good.
    – Multitask needs a lot to improve. Even on Mango.
    – UI color schemes are ugly. Blue scheme is the unique I like. Also, I loved the old WP7 logo against the red square.
    – This summer in one beta I got voice on maps. That was removed. (Spanish language) Why?
    – The week I switched back I got tired suffering several voice call cuts on Omnia 7. It happened some months ago but I thought that was the cell coverage. No, it wasn’t cell coverage and I didn’t want to spend time investigating on this. Never happened on the iPhone again.
    – Updates are released through your operator. That sucks a lot, dude. You sell your soul to your operator through your plan and firmwares too.

    Well, that’s basically all, and I explained what I thought all this months. That is not a question about how cool is one or another platform. Is about the experience of each day. I love Microsoft on many aspects and technologies, but WP7 needs a lot to improve to be a good and respectable mobile platform.

    @ju4nj3:twitter

    • Johan Petersson

      I have tethering on my Omnia in Sweden. I guess your carrier has disabled it.

      • ju4nj3

        Thank you Johan.

        Fantastic… Orange in Spain allows it on others platforms but not on Windows Phone. I can’t understand the operator’s policies.

  • Ju4nj3

    I’m a IT administrator, desktop and web .NET developer for many years and I was interested on Windows Phone some months ago to develop WP7 applications using the same technologies I know.

    I’ve been using WP7 for months and I was in love with the phone, but also I got tired for many aspects and I want to expose the decision to switching back to iPhone a few weeks ago.

    Positive:
    – I love the speed of WP7
    – Boots in seconds
    – Music hub with Zune pass
    – Social networks integrated with contacts on the phone
    – Cloud and Live services
    – Mailing is also very fast
    – Image hub
    – Xbox live.
    – Wifi sync with Zune desktop app.
    – Apps downloaded on web are installed automatically on the phone.
    – Bing
    – Microsoft Tellme.

    Negative:
    – There are a lot of crap on the marketplace, a very few good apps (in numbers). There is no mininum of quality set on the marketplace.
    – Expensive prices: Angry Birds costs on iPhone 0,79 €, in the Marketplace costs 2,99 €. The same for the rest of games and apps. Seriously, I can’t understand this. Xbox Live is not enough reason for this.
    – Metro UI looks good but isn’t mature in some aspects. A few apps look impressive and have enough quality to beat other platforms. The rest looks very crude, ugly and crappy. We are on the XXI century, we need and want rich UIs, in some aspects Metro looks so old. Windows 8 goes the same bad way.
    – No VPN since came out. For the 99% of users is ok but, this is unacceptable for me, this is the MAIN reason to switching back.
    – Tethering is the other reason. My Omnia 7 doesn’t support it officially and that sucks for one year old phone. Yes, it supports doing some tricks, but this is another question.
    – Twitter official app is crap against others official on other platforms.
    – Whatsapp official app is bad too. It’s so slow switching back to the app even on multitask. It is so hard to have a good conversation doing other things on the phone. I explain this because is the same way I feel on other apps.
    – Youtube official app is a link to web. That’s a joke, man. Instead, MetroTube is good.
    – Multitask needs a lot to improve. Even on Mango.
    – UI color schemes are ugly. Blue scheme is the unique I like. Also, I loved the old WP7 logo against the red square.
    – This summer in one beta I got voice on maps. That was removed. (Spanish language) Why?
    – The week I switched back I got tired suffering several voice call cuts on Omnia 7. It happened some months ago but I thought that was the cell coverage. No, it wasn’t cell coverage and I didn’t want to spend time investigating on this. Never happened on the iPhone again.
    – Updates are released through your operator. That sucks a lot, dude. You sell your soul to your operator through your plan and firmwares too.

    Well, that’s basically all, and I explained what I thought all this months. That is not a question about how cool is one or another platform. Is about the experience of each day. I love Microsoft on many aspects and technologies, but WP7 needs a lot to improve to be a good and respectable mobile platform.

    @ju4nj3:twitter

    • Johan Pettersson

      I have tethering on my Omnia in Sweden. I guess your carrier has disabled it.

      • ju4nj3

        Thank you Johan.

        Fantastic… Orange in Spain allows it on others platforms but not on Windows Phone. I can’t understand the operator’s policies.

  • Asbjørn

    I’m currently getting ready to replace my Android phone and I have seriously been considering getting a Windows phone (the Lumia 800 when it comes out), as Android has been *very* unstable for me (like restarting several times a day, WiFi needing to be toggled off/on to work etc.). However, two things have me leaning towards Android anyway (I refuse to buy an iPhone):
    – Lack of apps. To list a few: Feedly, Cut the Rope, YouTube (since MetroTube is being discontinued), several useful Danish apps (since I live in Denmark). This will obviously improve over time (I hope).
    – Bing sucks. It may work in the US, but it sure doesn’t here. A simple test on Bing maps put me in the other end of the country, whereas Google Maps on Android got it right. This is critical for me, since I use my smartphone quite a lot for navigation. Nokia’s map solution may work better, but I haven’t been able to try it. And anyway, that should not need third-party assistance.

    I really want to give Windows Phone a chance, but Microsoft’s refusal to care for their customers outside the US is not encouraging. And given their track record in this regard, who knows how long it will take them to actually give us the same features as in the US?

  • Asbjørn

    I’m currently getting ready to replace my Android phone and I have seriously been considering getting a Windows phone (the Lumia 800 when it comes out), as Android has been *very* unstable for me (like restarting several times a day, WiFi needing to be toggled off/on to work etc.). However, two things have me leaning towards Android anyway (I refuse to buy an iPhone):
    – Lack of apps. To list a few: Feedly, Cut the Rope, YouTube (since MetroTube is being discontinued), several useful Danish apps (since I live in Denmark). This will obviously improve over time (I hope).
    – Bing sucks. It may work in the US, but it sure doesn’t here. A simple test on Bing maps put me in the other end of the country, whereas Google Maps on Android got it right. This is critical for me, since I use my smartphone quite a lot for navigation. Nokia’s map solution may work better, but I haven’t been able to try it. And anyway, that should not need third-party assistance.

    I really want to give Windows Phone a chance, but Microsoft’s refusal to care for their customers outside the US is not encouraging. And given their track record in this regard, who knows how long it will take them to actually give us the same features as in the US?

  • tN0

    They failed to show what advantages the Windows Phone brings and they didn’t have a clear strategy: people are wondering why Microsoft is releasing better apps for iPhone and iPad before supporting their own platform.

    – They don’t have to change their brand, they have to show that Windows Phone is not Windows Mobile!
    – They have to show that Windows Phone IS cool, because it actually is!
    – They need better hardware, especially a real flagship device. If no manufacturer want/can do, they have to produce it themselves
    – They need better services worldwide! Especially Bing didn’t really improved over the last year.
    – They need better marketing: their website is just very rudimentary, the videos and other materials only show faked UI, terrible quality, no ads on TV and web
    – They have to support Windows Phone first, then Android and iOS!
    – They have to improve the OS faster with smaller frequent updates.

    • efjay

      Right on the money! They also have to get rid of this secrecy mentality, they announced Skype months ago, and while we understand that the acquisition has changed things why has there not been even a whisper of it coming to WP7?

      And in the US att has both the high end WP7 devices, the Titan and Focus S, where is the accompanying ad campaign to champion these devices?

      Too many things that are just plain wrong when it comes to WP7, whether its the carriers, OEM’s or Microsoft (still no backup facility, WTH!). Dont see its adoption getting any better for the forseeable future, I’m afraid.

  • Anonymous

    They failed to show what advantages the Windows Phone brings and they didn’t have a clear strategy: people are wondering why Microsoft is releasing better apps for iPhone and iPad before supporting their own platform.

    – They don’t have to change their brand, they have to show that Windows Phone is not Windows Mobile!
    – They have to show that Windows Phone IS cool, because it actually is!
    – They need better hardware, especially a real flagship device. If no manufacturer want/can do, they have to produce it themselves
    – They need better services worldwide! Especially Bing didn’t really improved over the last year.
    – They need better marketing: their website is just very rudimentary, the videos and other materials only show faked UI, terrible quality, no ads on TV and web
    – They have to support Windows Phone first, then Android and iOS!
    – They have to improve the OS faster with smaller frequent updates.

    • http://twitter.com/efjay01 Ef Jay

      Right on the money! They also have to get rid of this secrecy mentality, they announced Skype months ago, and while we understand that the acquisition has changed things why has there not been even a whisper of it coming to WP7?

      And in the US att has both the high end WP7 devices, the Titan and Focus S, where is the accompanying ad campaign to champion these devices?

      Too many things that are just plain wrong when it comes to WP7, whether its the carriers, OEM’s or Microsoft (still no backup facility, WTH!). Dont see its adoption getting any better for the forseeable future, I’m afraid.

  • Webguy

    I think the problem is not Windows Phone OS but the fact that people buy phones, they don’t buy phone OS’s.  There have not been any cutting edge Windows Phone hardware to date with the exception of HTC Titan.  Of which I have never seen advertised and only managed to find one in the furthest couner of my local ATT store because I was looking for it.     

  • Webguy

    I think the problem is not Windows Phone OS but the fact that people buy phones, they don’t buy phone OS’s.  There have not been any cutting edge Windows Phone hardware to date with the exception of HTC Titan.  Of which I have never seen advertised and only managed to find one in the furthest couner of my local ATT store because I was looking for it.     

  • Guest

    Image #1 = “bumbling fool” in charge of marketing!

    Image #2 = what has come to market thus far!

  • Guest

    Image #1 = “bumbling fool” in charge of marketing!

    Image #2 = what has come to market thus far!

  • http://www.yashmaheshwari.com/ Yash Maheshwari

    What I think has been Windows Phone’s biggest hurdle till now? *Global Availability*

    Windows Phone 7 was launched only in selected markets.
    Windows Phone came to major markets like India only with the Mango release, that too without much fanfare or attractive devices.

    That has all changed with Nokia Lumias. Nokia has launched their marketing blitz here in India, just like they have in other countries. What this has led to is a general awareness about this new platform Nokia Lumia’s run on.

    In short, Since its launch barely a few months ago, this is the first major marketing effort by any brand around Windows Phone in India.
    And we still have markets like China where Windows Phone hasn’t even been released officially yet!

    This explains the small numbers globally. Give Windows Phone a few more devices, release it in every country, which will lead to more customers & devs, and you’ll see the platform flourishing.

    We shouldn’t forget that this is just the second iteration of a platform build from scratch, we shouldn’t be talking about what is missing, rather whether whatever is present has been implemented properly or not.

  • http://www.yashmaheshwari.com Yash Maheshwari

    What I think has been Windows Phone’s biggest hurdle till now? *Global Availability*

    Windows Phone 7 was launched only in selected markets.
    Windows Phone came to major markets like India only with the Mango release, that too without much fanfare or attractive devices.

    That has all changed with Nokia Lumias. Nokia has launched their marketing blitz here in India, just like they have in other countries. What this has led to is a general awareness about this new platform Nokia Lumia’s run on.

    In short, Since its launch barely a few months ago, this is the first major marketing effort by any brand around Windows Phone in India.
    And we still have markets like China where Windows Phone hasn’t even been released officially yet!

    This explains the small numbers globally. Give Windows Phone a few more devices, release it in every country, which will lead to more customers & devs, and you’ll see the platform flourishing.

    We shouldn’t forget that this is just the second iteration of a platform build from scratch, we shouldn’t be talking about what is missing, rather whether whatever is present has been implemented properly or not.

  • http://twitter.com/Paulvsteenkiste Paul Vansteenkiste

    Coming back to the Windows 7 crashing all the time. I have to side with the apple fanboys. I mean I get a crash when I installed a bad driver and I lost all my data. Oh wait that’s not true. I didn’t lose any data, I just used last known good configuration and had no problem. Still, this one time I installed this application, and it crashed a lot  I couldn’t uninstall it for some reason and it was annoying and I had to go all the way into the start menu to reverse it with system restore. That was a drag. Boy I sure wish I could trade places with my friend who owns a macbook. It’s so easy and everything just works. Well not everything my old macbook hung up a lot but that’s probably just a single issue. Anyway back to my friend, everything’s so much easier. He just calibrated his battery on his macbook and then it wouldn’t boot up again. And he wanted to use the restore tools but they weren’t there. So he made a bootable usb drive put Lion on it and tried to fix the startup but that didn’t work. So he looked for a system restore option and that doesn’t exist. So he drove 50 kilometers to a friend of ours who then copied all the data from the harddisk reinstalled Lion OS and put all the data back reinstalled applications and done. So easy and it only took 3 days to get it all done. And when I asked him why he didn’t just make a system image, turns out Mac OSX doesn’t have that ability built in. Boy I have sure learned my lesson. Sometimes messing around for 3 days and having to drive all the way up to a friend is better. I don’t know why and I know a logic points against it, but still it IS better.   Of course it would be even better if we back a new mac and forget about all the troubles behind us.  Conclusion: Keep lying to yourself, it’s just a better world to live in (apparently)?

  • http://twitter.com/Paulvsteenkiste Paul Vansteenkiste

    Coming back to the Windows 7 crashing all the time. I have to side with the apple fanboys. I mean I get a crash when I installed a bad driver and I lost all my data. Oh wait that’s not true. I didn’t lose any data, I just used last known good configuration and had no problem. Still, this one time I installed this application, and it crashed a lot  I couldn’t uninstall it for some reason and it was annoying and I had to go all the way into the start menu to reverse it with system restore. That was a drag. Boy I sure wish I could trade places with my friend who owns a macbook. It’s so easy and everything just works. Well not everything my old macbook hung up a lot but that’s probably just a single issue. Anyway back to my friend, everything’s so much easier. He just calibrated his battery on his macbook and then it wouldn’t boot up again. And he wanted to use the restore tools but they weren’t there. So he made a bootable usb drive put Lion on it and tried to fix the startup but that didn’t work. So he looked for a system restore option and that doesn’t exist. So he drove 50 kilometers to a friend of ours who then copied all the data from the harddisk reinstalled Lion OS and put all the data back reinstalled applications and done. So easy and it only took 3 days to get it all done. And when I asked him why he didn’t just make a system image, turns out Mac OSX doesn’t have that ability built in. Boy I have sure learned my lesson. Sometimes messing around for 3 days and having to drive all the way up to a friend is better. I don’t know why and I know a logic points against it, but still it IS better.   Of course it would be even better if we back a new mac and forget about all the troubles behind us.  Conclusion: Keep lying to yourself, it’s just a better world to live in (apparently)?

  • wizact

    My reason: It’s not available in Asian markets. HTC stores recently brought one (HTC Radar). Samsung stores completely are Android. Nokia, too soon. I paid double in my market to get Nexus One and really craving for Lumia 800… It’s not here! Interesting point: you can see HTC WP7 ads but when you go to the stores you can see nothing…

  • http://twitter.com/wizact Amirhossein

    My reason: It’s not available in Asian markets. HTC stores recently brought one (HTC Radar). Samsung stores completely are Android. Nokia, too soon. I paid double in my market to get Nexus One and really craving for Lumia 800… It’s not here! Interesting point: you can see HTC WP7 ads but when you go to the stores you can see nothing…

  • Andrew_ww

    Its “Windows” and they have a bad reputation for no real reasons.

  • http://twitter.com/Andrew_ww Andrew W

    Its “Windows” and they have a bad reputation for no real reasons.

  • JSYOUNG571

    We can play the name change game all day. Did anyone learn anything from the Live search to the Bing search name change? The name change from Live Mesh to Skydrive? People still do not like the service. The major blow for Microsoft is their release schedule and follow ups.  It has been this way for years.  People get fustrated and tired of waiting for the basics. That is what has been their major downfall for years with Windows Mobile Phones.

    • Glman

      Skydrive started as Live Folders during it’s beta period and live mesh has always been live mesh. Live mesh works within Skydrive, they are in fact two different things. Microsoft had Live Sync and Live Mesh available at the same time until the two were collapsed together under the Live Mesh name. Sync and Mesh did the same thing, synced files across PCs using Skydrive. You can still use Skydrive and Live Mesh is available, I use both every day.

  • Anonymous

    We can play the name change game all day. Did anyone learn anything from the Live search to the Bing search name change? The name change from Live Mesh to Skydrive? People still do not like the service. The major blow for Microsoft is their release schedule and follow ups.  It has been this way for years.  People get fustrated and tired of waiting for the basics. That is what has been their major downfall for years with Windows Mobile Phones.

    • Glman

      Skydrive started as Live Folders during it’s beta period and live mesh has always been live mesh. Live mesh works within Skydrive, they are in fact two different things. Microsoft had Live Sync and Live Mesh available at the same time until the two were collapsed together under the Live Mesh name. Sync and Mesh did the same thing, synced files across PCs using Skydrive. You can still use Skydrive and Live Mesh is available, I use both every day.

  • Rustam Sydykov

    Hello, fellows.
    Is it really starting to come together? I do not have to be convinced to chose WP7 phone, but my problem is that it always looks like WP7 is limping somewhere behind, quite far from iOS and Android phones. I had a look on Nokia Lumia and liked it very much, HTC Titan is probably good phone too… But… why some important features are missing in WP7!? My point is that WP7 lacks some lustre that would make people saying: “I want this phone!” Smartphones have moved away from being just “phones”, their value consists of applications available for the platform and usability (features) of these applications. Does WP7 messenger have voice calls to Live Messenger? I am not talking even about video calls, because not all WP7 phones have front camera. Is Skype available? Funny enough, my Skype contact list is longer than Live Messenger. Skype has its problems (especially with IM), but I can have in Android or iOS but it does not look like it will be soon available for WP7. Does anybody know for sure when it will be? I guess no one… Another thing… I have unlimited data plan with my mobile operator. I have Samsung Galaxy Tab (well, it is not a phone, but I still can make phone calls using it:)) and I can connect to the Internet from my laptop (Tab allows up to 5 devices to be tethered) using it. Is tethering available as a standard feature on WP7 (except HTC Titan)?
    The biggest problem with WP7 is that it just cannot stand out, it does not have any features that other platforms do not. WP7 appeared too late and it should not try to play “catch up” game, it should make breakthrough. I am not sure this is happening. And it is very sad. MS should have spend a lot of time and efforts convincing developers of “killer applications” (like Skype and so on) to make their applications ready as soon as possible or make sure that everyone know exactly when these applications will be available. Without it, WP7 has very small chance to shine. I may sound like one of these Android zealots moaning about WP7, but I am not and I do want my next phone to be WP7 one (preferable Nokia Lumia, as soon as tethering is  available – I will buy one even when other features/applications are still missing).
    Cheers,
    Rustam.

  • http://profiles.google.com/rsadykoff Rustam Sydykov

    Hello, fellows.
    Is it really starting to come together? I do not have to be convinced to chose WP7 phone, but my problem is that it always looks like WP7 is limping somewhere behind, quite far from iOS and Android phones. I had a look on Nokia Lumia and liked it very much, HTC Titan is probably good phone too… But… why some important features are missing in WP7!? My point is that WP7 lacks some lustre that would make people saying: “I want this phone!” Smartphones have moved away from being just “phones”, their value consists of applications available for the platform and usability (features) of these applications. Does WP7 messenger have voice calls to Live Messenger? I am not talking even about video calls, because not all WP7 phones have front camera. Is Skype available? Funny enough, my Skype contact list is longer than Live Messenger. Skype has its problems (especially with IM), but I can have in Android or iOS but it does not look like it will be soon available for WP7. Does anybody know for sure when it will be? I guess no one… Another thing… I have unlimited data plan with my mobile operator. I have Samsung Galaxy Tab (well, it is not a phone, but I still can make phone calls using it:)) and I can connect to the Internet from my laptop (Tab allows up to 5 devices to be tethered) using it. Is tethering available as a standard feature on WP7 (except HTC Titan)?
    The biggest problem with WP7 is that it just cannot stand out, it does not have any features that other platforms do not. WP7 appeared too late and it should not try to play “catch up” game, it should make breakthrough. I am not sure this is happening. And it is very sad. MS should have spend a lot of time and efforts convincing developers of “killer applications” (like Skype and so on) to make their applications ready as soon as possible or make sure that everyone know exactly when these applications will be available. Without it, WP7 has very small chance to shine. I may sound like one of these Android zealots moaning about WP7, but I am not and I do want my next phone to be WP7 one (preferable Nokia Lumia, as soon as tethering is  available – I will buy one even when other features/applications are still missing).
    Cheers,
    Rustam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Zahl/1670371040 Steven Zahl

    The Market has spoken

    • Glman

      All we will ever have are droids and iphones and ipads all righty then lets move on. The market wasn’t going to accept Toyota vehicles either. I still drive a black model T.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Zahl/1670371040 Steven Zahl

    The Market has spoken

    • Glman

      All we will ever have are droids and iphones and ipads all righty then lets move on. The market wasn’t going to accept Toyota vehicles either. I still drive a black model T.

  • Michael DePouw

    “It needs to really embrace becoming a consumer company”  That’s spot-on!  MD

  • Michael DePouw

    “It needs to really embrace becoming a consumer company”  That’s spot-on!  MD