Are you a Windows 8 fan?

By Kip Kniskern | In Featured, News | Posted March 6, 2012 91 comments

windows 8 beta fishIt’s been almost a week since the download links for the Windows 8 Consumer Preview have gone live, and if you were one of the million or so previewers to get the bits, you’ve had some time to install and get familiar with Windows 8, Metro, and the assortment of App Previews that shipped with it or are available through the Windows Marketplace.

Unlike the Windows 7 beta launch, access to the download has been smooth, and if you want to try out Windows 8, it has been relatively easy to do so.

You’ve also had time to read some reviews and reaction from around the web, some of it better than others.  So many people have complained about the lack of a start button, setting the (old) desktop as default, the lack of restyling of the old interface, and the difficulty in finding the Shutdown button to Paul Thurrott over at WinSuperSite that he was moved to rant about “testers” who don’t get to work and test out the new interface:

All I’m looking for is a little common sense: Either test the Windows 8 Consumer Preview or don’t. But if you’re intent on using it as if it were Windows 7, please, I’m begging you. Stop wasting your time. And stop wasting mine.

Of course Microsoft itself would argue that this isn’t a “beta”, to be tested, but a Consumer Preview, to be reacted to, and there is certainly at least some negative reaction.  In fact, the number one Windows 8 question over at Microsoft Answers right now is:

Is there any way to completely disable Metro, and bring back the Windows 7 start-menu? (or, even better, the XP start menu!) Either a setting or a hack or whatever… Anything..

(via an @MaryJoFoley retweet)

But testing, or “previewing” Windows 8, and the reactions to it, are tempered by the lack of touch enabled hardware to test it on, and it’s fair to say that many of the complaints coming in about Windows 8 are with the mouse/keyboard interface, and not necessarily the OS itself.

So what do you think?  Are you a Windows 8 fan?  Are you sticking to your Windows 7/XP guns?  Are you waiting to get your hands on a Windows 8/ARM tablet before you form a reaction?  Does Windows 8 *need* touch?  Let us know what you think in the comments, and take our poll in the sidebar.

Posted March 6th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Category: Featured, News
Tags: Windows 8
  • http://doctorwhofan98.wordpress.com/ doctorwhofan98

    I couldn’t like Windows 8 any more (and I’m just using a keyboard and mouse!). Some things do need to be improved, though, e.g.
    1) Need to be able to see folders AND messages at the same time in Mail
    2) Mail needs notifications like Messaging. Same for Calendar.
    3) Messages needs video call

    Otherwise Windows 8 is the best thing from Microsoft yet. :)

    • 0110110101100100

      +1 , and I’ve been using it with just a keyboard and a mouse too, and on a 6 years-old desktop. Not going back to 7, not even on my laptop once it’s back from repairing.

      The apps are clearly well behind the os, so it will be interesting to see how long it takes until they get updated to a more stable and feature-complete state.

      • Asgardi

        1) Not problem in windows. It app problem.
        2) Not problem in windows. It app problem.
        3) Not problem in windows. It app problem.

        The issues are true though and you should pass your opinions to MS.

  • http://alexsimkin.tumblr.com/ Alex Simkin

    I couldn’t like Windows 8 any more (and I’m just using a keyboard and mouse!). Some things do need to be improved, though, e.g.
    1) Need to be able to see folders AND messages at the same time in Mail
    2) Mail needs notifications like Messaging. Same for Calendar.
    3) Messages needs video call

    Otherwise Windows 8 is the best thing from Microsoft yet. :)

    • 0110110101100100

      +1 , and I’ve been using it with just a keyboard and a mouse too, and on a 6 years-old desktop. Not going back to 7, not even on my laptop once it’s back from repairing.

      The apps are clearly well behind the os, so it will be interesting to see how long it takes until they get updated to a more stable and feature-complete state.

      • Asgardi

        1) Not problem in windows. It app problem.
        2) Not problem in windows. It app problem.
        3) Not problem in windows. It app problem.

        The issues are true though and you should pass your opinions to MS.

  • uberlaff

    Yep… love it

  • uberlaff

    Yep… love it

  • starkenator

    I think when most desktop apps that people use are replaced with GOOD Metro apps that a lot of the negativity will subside as people spend most of their time in Metro. There will always be some who are never going to be happy with the changes though.

    • Alvaro-garcia

      Yes, but current metro apps don’t replace desktop apps. For example I have to install Live Essential because Mail doesn’t support POP accounts. Photo doesn’t support rotation, tag people, etc.

      • starkenator

        I think you missed my emphasis on GOOD, plus the mail & photo apps are in app preview and will undoubtably improve.

  • starkenator

    I think when most desktop apps that people use are replaced with GOOD Metro apps that a lot of the negativity will subside as people spend most of their time in Metro. There will always be some who are never going to be happy with the changes though.

    • Alvaro-garcia

      Yes, but current metro apps don’t replace desktop apps. For example I have to install Live Essential because Mail doesn’t support POP accounts. Photo doesn’t support rotation, tag people, etc.

      • starkenator

        I think you missed my emphasis on GOOD, plus the mail & photo apps are in app preview and will undoubtably improve.

  • Avatar Roku

    Overall its very good but it needs a lot of little improvements and tweaks. The apps that MS has created feel very early and unfinished. I think they need to come up with a faster & easier way to get to all apps with just a mouse. I think they need to come up with a way to organize your app list and your IE bookmarks, but that goes for Windows Phone as well which is missing these fundamental features. Windows 8 feels like it’s lacking intuitiveness because it has no visual cues telling you where to put your mouse or any quick tutorial explaining where you go to accomplish tasks. Finally I still feel like there should be a default Metro theme for the classic desktop. Other than that though I think the controls work well, especially on touch screens which is the future of computing.

    The Windows Store has always been the main attraction to Win8 and it delivers high quality modern apps and the ease of use necessary to succeed. The app store could be Microsoft’s next billion dollar business. This will be the most profitable version of the OS ever released because it’s the first where MS makes money on every app. This OS is skating to where the puck is going to be rather than where it is right now. The hardware that you have today might not be ideal, but computers will adopt touch screens and touch enabled mice. And that should be enough to keep you from ever yearning for an iPad.

  • http://gregsedwards.wordpress.com Greg Edwards

    “Is there a way to completely disable Metro, and bring back the Windows 7 start-menu?” Yep. Install Windows 7. You’re welcome. :)

    A couple of folks with whom I’ve spoken took exception to Paul’s tone, but I think his message is dead on. This is the future of Windows, folks. Either like it or don’t use it. But stop trying to make it something it’s not designed to be.

    You don’t buy a new car and then immediately start complaining about how it’s not your old bicycle. Moreover, you don’t rip the doors off said car to make it feel more like said bicycle. If your old bike gets you where you need to go, then just stick with that.

    Besides, the “classic” Start menu ain’t exactly all that. At times it’s clunky, burying important shortcuts under layers of folders and heirarchy. It suffers from all kinds of layout oddities, including an arbitrarily set width. It expands vertically when the trend in displays over the past decade has been a move toward widescreen. With a flat bottom edge, it looks out of place anywhere other than the lower left corner of your desktop. And you know what? Thanks to Windows 7’s improved taskbar pinning, I almost never use it any more except to hit the search box and to shut down. The desktop metaphor has served us well these past 15 years, but it’s a dinosaur that needs to be retired if Windows is to be the OS for more than just classic PCs.

    I can’t wait to try this thing on an actual touch tablet.

    • byronm

      People view windows as cumbersome, that is why Apple is wipping the floor with MS in consumer space and what blows my mind is how big of a blowhard some of these naysayers are in loving their iDevices but my oh my, simplify windows so you actually use a PC instead of manage a PC and WTF..  I don’t get people.. not at all. 

      You can’t push the envelope of computing and NOT change.. 

  • Avatar Roku

    Overall its very good but it needs a lot of little improvements and tweaks. The apps that MS has created feel very early and unfinished. I think they need to come up with a faster & easier way to get to all apps with just a mouse. I think they need to come up with a way to organize your app list and your IE bookmarks, but that goes for Windows Phone as well which is missing these fundamental features. Windows 8 feels like it’s lacking intuitiveness because it has no visual cues telling you where to put your mouse or any quick tutorial explaining where you go to accomplish tasks. Finally I still feel like there should be a default Metro theme for the classic desktop. Other than that though I think the controls work well, especially on touch screens which is the future of computing.

    The Windows Store has always been the main attraction to Win8 and it delivers high quality modern apps and the ease of use necessary to succeed. The app store could be Microsoft’s next billion dollar business. This will be the most profitable version of the OS ever released because it’s the first where MS makes money on every app. This OS is skating to where the puck is going to be rather than where it is right now. The hardware that you have today might not be ideal, but computers will adopt touch screens and touch enabled mice. And that should be enough to keep you from ever yearning for an iPad.

  • http://gregsedwards.wordpress.com/ Greg Edwards

    “Is there a way to completely disable Metro, and bring back the Windows 7 start-menu?” Yep. Install Windows 7. You’re welcome. :)

    A couple of folks with whom I’ve spoken took exception to Paul’s tone, but I think his message is dead on. This is the future of Windows, folks. Either like it or don’t use it. But stop trying to make it something it’s not designed to be.

    You don’t buy a new car and then immediately start complaining about how it’s not your old bicycle. Moreover, you don’t rip the doors off said car to make it feel more like said bicycle. If your old bike gets you where you need to go, then just stick with that.

    Besides, the “classic” Start menu ain’t exactly all that. At times it’s clunky, burying important shortcuts under layers of folders and heirarchy. It suffers from all kinds of layout oddities, including an arbitrarily set width. It expands vertically when the trend in displays over the past decade has been a move toward widescreen. With a flat bottom edge, it looks out of place anywhere other than the lower left corner of your desktop. And you know what? Thanks to Windows 7’s improved taskbar pinning, I almost never use it any more except to hit the search box and to shut down. The desktop metaphor has served us well these past 15 years, but it’s a dinosaur that needs to be retired if Windows is to be the OS for more than just classic PCs.

    I can’t wait to try this thing on an actual touch tablet.

    • hypernovae

      People view windows as cumbersome, that is why Apple is wipping the floor with MS in consumer space and what blows my mind is how big of a blowhard some of these naysayers are in loving their iDevices but my oh my, simplify windows so you actually use a PC instead of manage a PC and WTF..  I don’t get people.. not at all. 

      You can’t push the envelope of computing and NOT change.. 

  • chinch987

    works fantastic. have it on my primary laptop in fact. Only Citrix’ GotoExpress not working stops me from installing on all PCs I work with regularly.

    In 9-12 months when 95% of desktops have Metro versions it will really be mind bogglingly pleasant to use (with or without touch).

    • http://gregsedwards.wordpress.com Greg Edwards

      Some programs that would otherwise work just fine balk at the Windows version number. Have you tried installing GotoExpress with compatibility settings? Right click the installer, click Properties, click the Compatibility tab, and configure for Windows 7 or Vista compatibility. I haven’t tried it for that specific application, but it’s worth a shot.

      • chinch987

        Thanks. I tried everything with GoToExpress Expert (software to manage/provide the support) including support (they were not help).  :(  That said GTE should run on a virtual machine (run from win8) but no time to try that yet.

  • chinch987

    works fantastic. have it on my primary laptop in fact. Only Citrix’ GotoExpress not working stops me from installing on all PCs I work with regularly.

    In 9-12 months when 95% of desktops have Metro versions it will really be mind bogglingly pleasant to use (with or without touch).

    • http://gregsedwards.wordpress.com/ Greg Edwards

      Some programs that would otherwise work just fine balk at the Windows version number. Have you tried installing GotoExpress with compatibility settings? Right click the installer, click Properties, click the Compatibility tab, and configure for Windows 7 or Vista compatibility. I haven’t tried it for that specific application, but it’s worth a shot.

      • chinch987

        Thanks. I tried everything with GoToExpress Expert (software to manage/provide the support) including support (they were not help).  :(  That said GTE should run on a virtual machine (run from win8) but no time to try that yet.

  • Harsha G11

    I’m using it as my primary OS on two desktop and i love it.

    Sorry haters It works really well with mouse

  • Harsha G11

    I’m using it as my primary OS on two desktop and i love it.

    Sorry haters It works really well with mouse

  • tk

    Mac user here.  Can’t express just how much I love W8.  Over the years OS X has gotten more confusing and cluttered, with horrible skeuomorphic UI elements, and now W8 is setting up to be the most zen-like computing experience ever.
    I will still recommend Macs to my friends who can afford the premium hardware, but I will be advising them to install Windows 8 and use it as their main OS.
    Microsoft is so much ahead of everybody else it’s not even funny.  But I am worried people will be scared of Metro and want to stick to W7, or switch to Mac.
    If W8 is successful, I will feel better about mankind’s future.  An uncluttered UI focused on productivity?  Sign me up.

  • tk

    Mac user here.  Can’t express just how much I love W8.  Over the years OS X has gotten more confusing and cluttered, with horrible skeuomorphic UI elements, and now W8 is setting up to be the most zen-like computing experience ever.
    I will still recommend Macs to my friends who can afford the premium hardware, but I will be advising them to install Windows 8 and use it as their main OS.
    Microsoft is so much ahead of everybody else it’s not even funny.  But I am worried people will be scared of Metro and want to stick to W7, or switch to Mac.
    If W8 is successful, I will feel better about mankind’s future.  An uncluttered UI focused on productivity?  Sign me up.

  • tN0

    I needed some time to get used to, but now I really like it! The biggest issue I have is that you can’t set default programs for metro AND desktop at the same time. If I am on the desktop, I want to stay at the desktop, even when I open links, pictures or videos. And when I’m using a metro app, I don’t want to get pulled to the desktop from links or files.

    And I’m still not happy how the Ribbon in Explorer looks. They really have to improve it. Especially the contextual tabs in the title bar are useless and ugly, they should be in the Ribbon like the other tabs.

    Another thing I would like to see: why can’t we use the Share charm in desktop programs or maybe just in Explorer? Sometimes I want to send a file from Explorer to a Metro app.

    • byronm

      I’m pretty sure there will be a metro explorer in no time..  There is already file chooser/picker and all sorts of other stuff you can do to get around this as well.

      The idea behind windows 8 is that you won’t need to get to explorer to do what you need to do – there will be an integrated app for that..  No more managing folders/files.. but hey, if thats your thing, you can use the desktop if you wish.

      • tN0

        You misunderstood. If I’m already working on the desktop, I want to share files from there with metro apps. But when you open the Share charm, it says that you can’t share things from the desktop.

        • NazmusLabs

          I get around it by right clicking the file(s) I want to open and clicking “Open With”. I get a metro style list of apps (metro and desktop) that can open the file. When I am on the desktop, I can choose a desktop app instead.

          For example, when opening music, I usually use the metro style music player, but sometimes, I right-click, click open with, and choose Windows Media Player from the metro style list.

  • tN0

    I needed some time to get used to, but now I really like it! The biggest issue I have is that you can’t set default programs for metro AND desktop at the same time. If I am on the desktop, I want to stay at the desktop, even when I open links, pictures or videos. And when I’m using a metro app, I don’t want to get pulled to the desktop from links or files.

    And I’m still not happy how the Ribbon in Explorer looks. They really have to improve it. Especially the contextual tabs in the title bar are useless and ugly, they should be in the Ribbon like the other tabs.

    Another thing I would like to see: why can’t we use the Share charm in desktop programs or maybe just in Explorer? Sometimes I want to send a file from Explorer to a Metro app.

    • hypernovae

      I’m pretty sure there will be a metro explorer in no time..  There is already file chooser/picker and all sorts of other stuff you can do to get around this as well.

      The idea behind windows 8 is that you won’t need to get to explorer to do what you need to do – there will be an integrated app for that..  No more managing folders/files.. but hey, if thats your thing, you can use the desktop if you wish.

      • tN0

        You misunderstood. If I’m already working on the desktop, I want to share files from there with metro apps. But when you open the Share charm, it says that you can’t share things from the desktop.

        • NazmusLabs

          I get around it by right clicking the file(s) I want to open and clicking “Open With”. I get a metro style list of apps (metro and desktop) that can open the file. When I am on the desktop, I can choose a desktop app instead.

          For example, when opening music, I usually use the metro style music player, but sometimes, I right-click, click open with, and choose Windows Media Player from the metro style list.

  • Tim Toennies

    Currently I am squarely in the “windows 8 needs touch”.  I have been trying to use it with a MAK and it is entirely too frustrating.  At least for me.

  • Tim Toennies

    Currently I am squarely in the “windows 8 needs touch”.  I have been trying to use it with a MAK and it is entirely too frustrating.  At least for me.

  • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

    I like it. And there are some interesting innovations under the covers (e.g. Storage Spaces). Sure, the Metro Apps need to become more capable – I’m still spending 95%+ of my time in the traditional Desktop, but I expect that to change. I don’t miss the Start Button one bit.

  • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

    I like it. And there are some interesting innovations under the covers (e.g. Storage Spaces). Sure, the Metro Apps need to become more capable – I’m still spending 95%+ of my time in the traditional Desktop, but I expect that to change. I don’t miss the Start Button one bit.

    • Aaron

      I agree about the start button – I don’t miss it at all. Actually, I realized after a while that I could open the start menu now with my mouse without looking. I am a LOT faster now that I know I can just throw my mouse down there without looking and “click” – there’s the menu.

      (I still spend a lot of time on desktop too, but I far prefer the metro environment when there is a suitable metro app available.)

  • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

    I like it. And there are some interesting innovations under the covers (e.g. Storage Spaces). Sure, the Metro Apps need to become more capable – I’m still spending 95%+ of my time in the traditional Desktop, but I expect that to change. I don’t miss the Start Button one bit.

    • Aaron

      I agree about the start button – I don’t miss it at all. Actually, I realized after a while that I could open the start menu now with my mouse without looking. I am a LOT faster now that I know I can just throw my mouse down there without looking and “click” – there’s the menu.

      (I still spend a lot of time on desktop too, but I far prefer the metro environment when there is a suitable metro app available.)

  • Moretti

    It’s an amazing OS super fast and surfing the internet wasn’t that fast before in any internet browser, need some improvements to messaging and media player there is some bugs in it I guess and dealing with office need improvements too, but I am sure it will be perfect in final release for windows 8 otherwise its the best windows and so excited to get my windows phone 8 with windows 8 tablets and for sure my Windows 8 desktop computer then everything will be much easier for contacting others and making all my job done.

    Thanks Microsoft for this amazing fastest windows yet

  • Moretti

    It’s an amazing OS super fast and surfing the internet wasn’t that fast before in any internet browser, need some improvements to messaging and media player there is some bugs in it I guess and dealing with office need improvements too, but I am sure it will be perfect in final release for windows 8 otherwise its the best windows and so excited to get my windows phone 8 with windows 8 tablets and for sure my Windows 8 desktop computer then everything will be much easier for contacting others and making all my job done.

    Thanks Microsoft for this amazing fastest windows yet

  • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

    Oh – one thing that worries me is that I still can’t change my country of residence in my Windows Store/Zune Marketplace/Xbox Live service account.

    I’d be happy to delete it and start again, but unfortunately, that can’t be done without deleting my Windows Live ID as well. I want to keep that – I’ve had it for more than 10 years and it’s the key to my online identity…

    • byronm

      The Microsoft ID/ Live ID situation needs to be addressed asap.. Not only do they need to allow for one to change their country and billing details and preserve their “live” data but they also need to integrate family xbox live accounts, let us share apps with family members and buy / manage zune/pass (or xbox.. whatever they name it) content..   Right now 5 phones can get apps installed and you can swap out 1 phone every 30 days once you reach that limit, but they have to use the same liveID and with liveID being a login to Windows8 that doesn’t make sense unless everyone logs into windows8 with the same account and shares the same skydrive, xbox live on and on..  Appl lets you create shared ID’s to manage.. MS desperataly needs to make sure that is true out the door for Windows8 and that feature is LONG overdue for windows phone..  developers are getting double dipped in my house for a lot of stuff myself and my wife buy for our individual phones that under iOS was able to be shared..

      • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

        If you live in the EU, then I think we have a case to say that Microsoft are in contravention of EU laws on this issue. See http://itisourdata.com

  • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

    Oh – one thing that worries me is that I still can’t change my country of residence in my Windows Store/Zune Marketplace/Xbox Live service account.

    I’d be happy to delete it and start again, but unfortunately, that can’t be done without deleting my Windows Live ID as well. I want to keep that – I’ve had it for more than 10 years and it’s the key to my online identity…

    • hypernovae

      The Microsoft ID/ Live ID situation needs to be addressed asap.. Not only do they need to allow for one to change their country and billing details and preserve their “live” data but they also need to integrate family xbox live accounts, let us share apps with family members and buy / manage zune/pass (or xbox.. whatever they name it) content..   Right now 5 phones can get apps installed and you can swap out 1 phone every 30 days once you reach that limit, but they have to use the same liveID and with liveID being a login to Windows8 that doesn’t make sense unless everyone logs into windows8 with the same account and shares the same skydrive, xbox live on and on..  Appl lets you create shared ID’s to manage.. MS desperataly needs to make sure that is true out the door for Windows8 and that feature is LONG overdue for windows phone..  developers are getting double dipped in my house for a lot of stuff myself and my wife buy for our individual phones that under iOS was able to be shared..

      • http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/ Geoff Coupe

        If you live in the EU, then I think we have a case to say that Microsoft are in contravention of EU laws on this issue. See http://itisourdata.com

  • byronm

    I’m happy as a clam with Windows8 and believe it or not i use a lot of desktop apps..  But hey, i sort of ENJOY that new feeling, its been YEARS since i’ve experienced something fresh on the desktop..

    I also know that the OS isn’t the be all end all, personalization is what wins windows users over, and its PAINFULLY obvious 3rd parties can and will fill the gaps of desktop mode regardless of what MS chooses to do and if you ask me, THAT is a good thing.

    Also, its  PREVIEW..  PREVIEW PREVIEW PREVIEW..  Can we even claim its BETA? we’re not feature complete in the apps, maybe feature complete in WinRT

  • hypernovae

    I’m happy as a clam with Windows8 and believe it or not i use a lot of desktop apps..  But hey, i sort of ENJOY that new feeling, its been YEARS since i’ve experienced something fresh on the desktop..

    I also know that the OS isn’t the be all end all, personalization is what wins windows users over, and its PAINFULLY obvious 3rd parties can and will fill the gaps of desktop mode regardless of what MS chooses to do and if you ask me, THAT is a good thing.

    Also, its  PREVIEW..  PREVIEW PREVIEW PREVIEW..  Can we even claim its BETA? we’re not feature complete in the apps, maybe feature complete in WinRT

  • Asmodai

    I very much prefer Windows 7 on non-touch devices (my Laptop and Desktop PCs) and as such I have no intention of upgrading them to Windows 8 when it comes out furthermore were I buying a new PC I would definitely take Windows 7 over 8 if given the option (assuming the new PC was also not touch).  That said I don’t have any touch hardware to play with it on but I am seriously considering getting an ARM based tablet running Windows 8 when they become available.

    • Asgardi

      I thought so yesterday too but actually W8 feels better and better all the time. I still remember how big change it was in XP when the new start menu came and the shortcuts to computer and other places disappeared from desktop. Almost everyone changed the old menu back but now, who uses the old start menu prior to XP any more? The same goes to the new app icons in taskbar introduced in W7. Almost all people I know used the Vista style first, but has now started using the new way. The same thing will happen with Metro start.

      For example one friend of mine argued that it was so simple click start and write anything and windows would find it in a fraction of a second. I tought this too first, but now after using this new way a while I have seen that it works exactly the same way now. You press start and start writing. In addition to this you have much more new functionality in start menu. It can feel stupid to be thrown out of desktop when pressing start button but i think it is the same like before when shortcuts disappeared from the desktop in XP and when texts disappeared from taskbar items in W7. You get used to it very quickly.

      And this start menu is really a very very small part of W8. Even if I hated the new start menu I still love many of the new stuff. Windows starts up in 5 seconds, shuts down in 3 seconds and wakes up from sleep in 1 second. I have better performance everywhere, including games like Skyrim and Battlefield 3. I can mount disk images just by right-clicking them. I can open PDF-files without installing slow and crappy 3rd party software. I’m always logged in to Live services by just logging in to windows. I have unified way to get notifications from apps. I have unified way to use settings in apps. I can control my privacy by setting on or off sending location data. I get all stuff currently on the phones to the PC (and probably vice versa, we will see when WP8 is out). And most importantly, I have unified user experience across phone, tablet, laptop, pc and tv.

  • Asmodai

    I very much prefer Windows 7 on non-touch devices (my Laptop and Desktop PCs) and as such I have no intention of upgrading them to Windows 8 when it comes out furthermore were I buying a new PC I would definitely take Windows 7 over 8 if given the option (assuming the new PC was also not touch).  That said I don’t have any touch hardware to play with it on but I am seriously considering getting an ARM based tablet running Windows 8 when they become available.

    • Asgardi

      I thought so yesterday too but actually W8 feels better and better all the time. I still remember how big change it was in XP when the new start menu came and the shortcuts to computer and other places disappeared from desktop. Almost everyone changed the old menu back but now, who uses the old start menu prior to XP any more? The same goes to the new app icons in taskbar introduced in W7. Almost all people I know used the Vista style first, but has now started using the new way. The same thing will happen with Metro start.

      For example one friend of mine argued that it was so simple click start and write anything and windows would find it in a fraction of a second. I tought this too first, but now after using this new way a while I have seen that it works exactly the same way now. You press start and start writing. In addition to this you have much more new functionality in start menu. It can feel stupid to be thrown out of desktop when pressing start button but i think it is the same like before when shortcuts disappeared from the desktop in XP and when texts disappeared from taskbar items in W7. You get used to it very quickly.

      And this start menu is really a very very small part of W8. Even if I hated the new start menu I still love many of the new stuff. Windows starts up in 5 seconds, shuts down in 3 seconds and wakes up from sleep in 1 second. I have better performance everywhere, including games like Skyrim and Battlefield 3. I can mount disk images just by right-clicking them. I can open PDF-files without installing slow and crappy 3rd party software. I’m always logged in to Live services by just logging in to windows. I have unified way to get notifications from apps. I have unified way to use settings in apps. I can control my privacy by setting on or off sending location data. I get all stuff currently on the phones to the PC (and probably vice versa, we will see when WP8 is out). And most importantly, I have unified user experience across phone, tablet, laptop, pc and tv.

  • Harsh Shah

    First of all.. the first impressions are really good. I loved it… but  after using over a week found that there are number of improvements required. For example, 1. I am typing a message and need a BCC then i have to right click on the right panel to enable BCC option. 2. If I have to check my folders then I have to again righ click on the right panel and the options will appear at the bottom and then select .. so there are many more clicks required to enable certain actions.  This will certainly hamper consumers productivity on the OS.. if at all you are planning to use W8 as a your main OS at your work place then …needs lots of improvements… Otheriwse.. it’s superb OS..

    Also when I switch to my online account .. there is no way i can change my messenger status.. It migth be i may not be aware of ..but it’s not easy to find where to change the windows live status message.

    On the sky drive app: I cannot view as a slides. For example, I click on one photo and it will be displayed in a view.. but then I cannot move forward/backward using arrow keys… I have to got back to sky drive folders and select another photo.

    so in my opinion these are few improvements which are required along with what people have posted earlier here on this website… Once they are done.. certainly it’s going to Rock… In my opinion…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NZRPL7DK7DFQQO44J5TM4PQLGU Harvey

      As for the applications your talking about, they are all “Preview” apps and don’t have most of the functionality that should be in the app.  Take mail for example.  It doesn’t even allow you to setup yahoo like you do gmail and hotmail.

      I imagine, for the apps, that much much more functionality will be availble by RC.

  • Harsh Shah

    First of all.. the first impressions are really good. I loved it… but  after using over a week found that there are number of improvements required. For example, 1. I am typing a message and need a BCC then i have to right click on the right panel to enable BCC option. 2. If I have to check my folders then I have to again righ click on the right panel and the options will appear at the bottom and then select .. so there are many more clicks required to enable certain actions.  This will certainly hamper consumers productivity on the OS.. if at all you are planning to use W8 as a your main OS at your work place then …needs lots of improvements… Otheriwse.. it’s superb OS..

    Also when I switch to my online account .. there is no way i can change my messenger status.. It migth be i may not be aware of ..but it’s not easy to find where to change the windows live status message.

    On the sky drive app: I cannot view as a slides. For example, I click on one photo and it will be displayed in a view.. but then I cannot move forward/backward using arrow keys… I have to got back to sky drive folders and select another photo.

    so in my opinion these are few improvements which are required along with what people have posted earlier here on this website… Once they are done.. certainly it’s going to Rock… In my opinion…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NZRPL7DK7DFQQO44J5TM4PQLGU Harvey

      As for the applications your talking about, they are all “Preview” apps and don’t have most of the functionality that should be in the app.  Take mail for example.  It doesn’t even allow you to setup yahoo like you do gmail and hotmail.

      I imagine, for the apps, that much much more functionality will be availble by RC.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NZRPL7DK7DFQQO44J5TM4PQLGU Harvey

    Yep, I’m a fan.
    I think MS is playing poker, as they usually do.

    In the DP, the some of the biggest complaints were…”can’t close apps” or “I hate that you have to swipe through all the apps to get to the one you want instead of alt-tab” or “I hate the explorer ribbon”…etc…

    I think MS is leaving the door open a little concerning the start menu.
    As we recall, they were not backing down from the ribbon and now in the CP, the ribbon is gone…..well sorta..  Its hidden (minimized) by default.  Problem solved.

    So what could happen with the start menu would be similar:  Don’t completely get rid of the start menu on the desktop, just minimized it by default or give some kind of setting to allow the user to turn it back on.  Problem solved. 

    I also think they are removing it “temporarily” to force people to get used to new start menu or “market” the “common” interface ( as WOA won’t have the traditional start menu ). 

    But in the end, they will give some mushy comment about understanding and listening to users and add it back or “market” an official way to turn back on legacy functionality for x86 machines. 

    Windows…no comprimises….trying to be all things to all people.  Bad or good.  Its their blessing and their curse.

    I love Windows man!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NZRPL7DK7DFQQO44J5TM4PQLGU Harvey

    Yep, I’m a fan.
    I think MS is playing poker, as they usually do.

    In the DP, the some of the biggest complaints were…”can’t close apps” or “I hate that you have to swipe through all the apps to get to the one you want instead of alt-tab” or “I hate the explorer ribbon”…etc…

    I think MS is leaving the door open a little concerning the start menu.
    As we recall, they were not backing down from the ribbon and now in the CP, the ribbon is gone…..well sorta..  Its hidden (minimized) by default.  Problem solved.

    So what could happen with the start menu would be similar:  Don’t completely get rid of the start menu on the desktop, just minimized it by default or give some kind of setting to allow the user to turn it back on.  Problem solved. 

    I also think they are removing it “temporarily” to force people to get used to new start menu or “market” the “common” interface ( as WOA won’t have the traditional start menu ). 

    But in the end, they will give some mushy comment about understanding and listening to users and add it back or “market” an official way to turn back on legacy functionality for x86 machines. 

    Windows…no comprimises….trying to be all things to all people.  Bad or good.  Its their blessing and their curse.

    I love Windows man!!!

  • frankwick

    I’ve become a Microsoft guy. I have fallen in love with Windows Phone and Metro on my device. I am an iOS convert and find my Windows Phone to be the most fluid, intuituive, and stable phone abvailable. FANTASTIC!! I love the idea of code re-use across the Phone and Win8.
    While I think Metro is ok on the Win8 preview, it is no where nearly as usable as the Windows Phone. NOT EVEN CLOSE!! I want Metro on tablets but by no means do I want to be forced into Metro on traditional keyboard/mouse desktops.

    I am the manager of 7000 corporate desktops. The thought of deploying Windows 8 to these users (ranging from office workers, to plant managers, to truck drivers) is frankly frightening. If I delivered a new operating system to these 7000 users (there are no touch computers) and it booted to Metro and the Start Menu was missing, I would be fired. These are general workers who rely on their computer as a tool to get a job done — THEY ARE NOT TECH ENTHUSIASTS!!! Everyday users don’t want change unless it is for the better and they can do their job faster. As far as I can tell, the changes in Win8 Desktop mode only add complexity and inefficiencies and will require these users to perform more steps to do the same thing in Win7.
    Have you tired to shut down from the desktop? Intead of two clicks, it now takes a hover, a click to go back to metro, a logout (another two clicks), then another click for the shutdown menu, then a click to shutdown. WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?!?!?

    Can you imagine me telling my users about the new start menu?
    OK Butch, the start menu icon has moved. And it’s hidden. To see it, use your mouse and hover in the lower right corner. I know it’s hard with two monitors but they tell me this is easier. Good! See those icons that appeared? Those are the magical charms. See, there it is, your start menu icon — I know it’s green now. Go ahead and click on it. HAHAHAHAH!!! Fooled you, Butch. The start menu takes you to the Metro UI. You “normal” users are so dumb. Get back to work.
    Here’s how to fix Win8 before it’s too late:

    1. Give us the option to boot to the desktop. Make an option I can put in my standard image and make it available via GPO

    2. Give us a Win7 style (with natural evolution) Start Menu and Task Bar. My users live in the start menu. The start menu is part of our DNA as users. My kids were born knowing what the Start Menu is. I tell my users that if they get lost, look to the start menu, Heck, we have even been conditioned to think it’s natural to click START in order to Shut Down.

    3. Pin the trash can to the task bar by the clock. Why is it still on the desktop after all these years!?!?!?

    4. While we’re dreaming, place the “Show desktop” icon on the left by the start button. It’s nearly useless for normal users where it is now in Win7. It is really cumbersome for users with two monitors.

  • frankwick

    I’ve become a Microsoft guy. I have fallen in love with Windows Phone and Metro on my device. I am an iOS convert and find my Windows Phone to be the most fluid, intuituive, and stable phone abvailable. FANTASTIC!! I love the idea of code re-use across the Phone and Win8.
    While I think Metro is ok on the Win8 preview, it is no where nearly as usable as the Windows Phone. NOT EVEN CLOSE!! I want Metro on tablets but by no means do I want to be forced into Metro on traditional keyboard/mouse desktops.

    I am the manager of 7000 corporate desktops. The thought of deploying Windows 8 to these users (ranging from office workers, to plant managers, to truck drivers) is frankly frightening. If I delivered a new operating system to these 7000 users (there are no touch computers) and it booted to Metro and the Start Menu was missing, I would be fired. These are general workers who rely on their computer as a tool to get a job done — THEY ARE NOT TECH ENTHUSIASTS!!! Everyday users don’t want change unless it is for the better and they can do their job faster. As far as I can tell, the changes in Win8 Desktop mode only add complexity and inefficiencies and will require these users to perform more steps to do the same thing in Win7.
    Have you tired to shut down from the desktop? Intead of two clicks, it now takes a hover, a click to go back to metro, a logout (another two clicks), then another click for the shutdown menu, then a click to shutdown. WHAT IS THIS?!?!?!?!?!?

    Can you imagine me telling my users about the new start menu?
    OK Butch, the start menu icon has moved. And it’s hidden. To see it, use your mouse and hover in the lower right corner. I know it’s hard with two monitors but they tell me this is easier. Good! See those icons that appeared? Those are the magical charms. See, there it is, your start menu icon — I know it’s green now. Go ahead and click on it. HAHAHAHAH!!! Fooled you, Butch. The start menu takes you to the Metro UI. You “normal” users are so dumb. Get back to work.
    Here’s how to fix Win8 before it’s too late:

    1. Give us the option to boot to the desktop. Make an option I can put in my standard image and make it available via GPO

    2. Give us a Win7 style (with natural evolution) Start Menu and Task Bar. My users live in the start menu. The start menu is part of our DNA as users. My kids were born knowing what the Start Menu is. I tell my users that if they get lost, look to the start menu, Heck, we have even been conditioned to think it’s natural to click START in order to Shut Down.

    3. Pin the trash can to the task bar by the clock. Why is it still on the desktop after all these years!?!?!?

    4. While we’re dreaming, place the “Show desktop” icon on the left by the start button. It’s nearly useless for normal users where it is now in Win7. It is really cumbersome for users with two monitors.

  • http://twitter.com/efjay01 Ef Jay

    Nice to read such balanced responses. I use Windows 8 on an Acer W500 tablet and it is very good. The metro apps are obviously not finished but still are pleasant to use, and switching to the desktop for more complete programs is not too bad as its so fast. The little usage I experienced with my keyboard dock didn’t give me any problems. 

    I would however love to see the desktop more Metro in appearance, I think there will definitely be programs that are not made for Metro and I would like for them to at least match visually. Apart from that I don’t have any showstopper issues. I’m really looking forward to getting a W8 device for my Mum, will be so much easier for her to use. 

  • efjay

    Nice to read such balanced responses. I use Windows 8 on an Acer W500 tablet and it is very good. The metro apps are obviously not finished but still are pleasant to use, and switching to the desktop for more complete programs is not too bad as its so fast. The little usage I experienced with my keyboard dock didn’t give me any problems. 

    I would however love to see the desktop more Metro in appearance, I think there will definitely be programs that are not made for Metro and I would like for them to at least match visually. Apart from that I don’t have any showstopper issues. I’m really looking forward to getting a W8 device for my Mum, will be so much easier for her to use. 

  • Nee

    I don’t like it as a desktop OS, but that’s mainly because I don’t see the point of having a single focused app operating system with the app taking up all the screen estate of a 2560×1440 monitor, and doing it awkwardly.

    Since I multitask a lot and only uses the Start menu as a quick access launcher while I’m watching something else on the desktop (say, reading this article while hitting WinFlag -> enter query text -> Enter), the new Start Screen is a hit in the face in more ways than one. Sorry, can’t get used to it and don’t like it as it obstruct the view of everything else.

    Now, merely the desktop changes I like. There’s a lot of promise in Metro, but I can’t understand why I should stand switching between two very distinct user interfaces with awkward tie-ins between them which also obviously rules under quite distinct design principles.

    Overall, at the current state the OS, as a desktop OS, doesn’t feel intuitive or very fun to use. It seems I’ll stick to Windows 7.

    P.S: The worst thing about Windows 8 is how dual boot works. If I want to use Windows 7 I’m forced to restart computer, boot into Windows 8, select Windows 7, computer restarts once more and finally Windows 7 boots up. This whole process of going through the POST stage twice merely to start a second operating system annoys me to no end. If I’m updating a driver or something in Windows 7 and the OS requires a restart? Well, that actually means two restarts are required… Even on a SATA2 SSD that takes quite a lot of time.

  • Nee

    I don’t like it as a desktop OS, but that’s mainly because I don’t see the point of having a single focused app operating system with the app taking up all the screen estate of a 2560×1440 monitor, and doing it awkwardly.

    Since I multitask a lot and only uses the Start menu as a quick access launcher while I’m watching something else on the desktop (say, reading this article while hitting WinFlag -> enter query text -> Enter), the new Start Screen is a hit in the face in more ways than one. Sorry, can’t get used to it and don’t like it as it obstruct the view of everything else.

    Now, merely the desktop changes I like. There’s a lot of promise in Metro, but I can’t understand why I should stand switching between two very distinct user interfaces with awkward tie-ins between them which also obviously rules under quite distinct design principles.

    Overall, at the current state the OS, as a desktop OS, doesn’t feel intuitive or very fun to use. It seems I’ll stick to Windows 7.

    P.S: The worst thing about Windows 8 is how dual boot works. If I want to use Windows 7 I’m forced to restart computer, boot into Windows 8, select Windows 7, computer restarts once more and finally Windows 7 boots up. This whole process of going through the POST stage twice merely to start a second operating system annoys me to no end. If I’m updating a driver or something in Windows 7 and the OS requires a restart? Well, that actually means two restarts are required… Even on a SATA2 SSD that takes quite a lot of time.

  • David

    I like Windows 8 and metro-style design very much BUT still I want my tradititonal Windpws 7 desktop.

    I want metro and Windows 8 fro my future tablet/slate but I want my full Windows 7 like desktop as well.

    So I am asking Microsoft to let users to select between Metro and Full Desktop when they install it on laptop and desktop or tablets.

    Don’t take away our full desktop and let metro get mature and be even better in Windows 9.

    Right now Windows 8 look like mix of both and mix is not the best and perfect situation reall. So please give us option to choose which one we want in our system when we install Windows or change them any time we want after.

    • http://www.facebook.com/robinvanveghel Robin van Veghel

      Well desktop is still there, nothing changed, just that the start button has been modified and has a bigger range in doing stuff. I am on Windows 8 and 90% of the time using the Desktop as if it was Windows 7, I see no problem there

      • frankwick

        desktop is there but it has changed.   It has regressed in functionality.

  • David

    I like Windows 8 and metro-style design very much BUT still I want my tradititonal Windpws 7 desktop.

    I want metro and Windows 8 fro my future tablet/slate but I want my full Windows 7 like desktop as well.

    So I am asking Microsoft to let users to select between Metro and Full Desktop when they install it on laptop and desktop or tablets.

    Don’t take away our full desktop and let metro get mature and be even better in Windows 9.

    Right now Windows 8 look like mix of both and mix is not the best and perfect situation reall. So please give us option to choose which one we want in our system when we install Windows or change them any time we want after.

    • http://www.facebook.com/robinvanveghel Robin van Veghel

      Well desktop is still there, nothing changed, just that the start button has been modified and has a bigger range in doing stuff. I am on Windows 8 and 90% of the time using the Desktop as if it was Windows 7, I see no problem there

      • frankwick

        desktop is there but it has changed.   It has regressed in functionality.

  • Guest

    Metro-style design still can be much much much more nicer and professional and clean and slick. They need to do much more work in term of art and styke to make them look realy nice and lovely.

  • Guest

    Metro-style design still can be much much much more nicer and professional and clean and slick. They need to do much more work in term of art and styke to make them look realy nice and lovely.

  • quppa

    Overall, I think the positives (speed increases, new file copy UI, new task manager, Explorer ribbon) outweigh the negatives (mandatory full screen Start Screen, ribbon styling). I don’t hate the Start Screen – after all, it does pretty much the same thing as the Windows Vista/7 Start Menu, even if it’s now more difficult to access settings results – but I strongly dislike being ripped out of the desktop every time I want to use it. It might seem like a minor complaint, but it’s really quite disruptive. (I’m just about to try out ‘Start8′ – http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ – sorry, Paul.)

    Despite Microsoft’s hard work in ensuring that Metro-style apps will work well without a touch interface, I can’t help but feel that desktop and laptop users are simply not the main targets of this version of Windows. In its current state, the Metro environment will never be suitable for many (most?) desktop programs. Oversized text and controls, low information density, no overlapping windows, etc. – Metro-style apps might work with the mouse and keyboard, but they’re clearly aimed at touch input scenarios. Let me make a bold prediction and say that the majority of Microsoft Office, Adobe’s Creative Suite and most line-of-business programs will never be ported to Metro as it exists today. Stripped down versions might appear, of course, but either Metro will need to change to accommodate more complex programs (which would make it no longer suitable for touch-only input) or the desktop will remain a prominent feature of Windows.

    Many people have written that the Metro environment is the future of Windows. I think it’s more accurate to say that it will be part of the future of Windows.

  • quppa

    Overall, I think the positives (speed increases, new file copy UI, new task manager, Explorer ribbon) outweigh the negatives (mandatory full screen Start Screen, ribbon styling). I don’t hate the Start Screen – after all, it does pretty much the same thing as the Windows Vista/7 Start Menu, even if it’s now more difficult to access settings results – but I strongly dislike being ripped out of the desktop every time I want to use it. It might seem like a minor complaint, but it’s really quite disruptive. (I’m just about to try out ‘Start8′ – http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ – sorry, Paul.)

    Despite Microsoft’s hard work in ensuring that Metro-style apps will work well without a touch interface, I can’t help but feel that desktop and laptop users are simply not the main targets of this version of Windows. In its current state, the Metro environment will never be suitable for many (most?) desktop programs. Oversized text and controls, low information density, no overlapping windows, etc. – Metro-style apps might work with the mouse and keyboard, but they’re clearly aimed at touch input scenarios. Let me make a bold prediction and say that the majority of Microsoft Office, Adobe’s Creative Suite and most line-of-business programs will never be ported to Metro as it exists today. Stripped down versions might appear, of course, but either Metro will need to change to accommodate more complex programs (which would make it no longer suitable for touch-only input) or the desktop will remain a prominent feature of Windows.

    Many people have written that the Metro environment is the future of Windows. I think it’s more accurate to say that it will be part of the future of Windows.

  • http://twitter.com/ThreeQuarks Phil Spohn

    Windows 8 runs smoother than XP on old hardware.

  • Phil Spohn

    Windows 8 runs smoother than XP on old hardware.

  • http://twitter.com/Henryed07 Henry Edwards

    I have installed Windows 8 on my 6 year old laptop, that came with XP, so it was Vista Capable. i then installed 7 whihc made it better. But windows 8 is the best even better than XP. It boots up faster than when I got it.

    Plus the UI is great, a little strange at first but one will get used to it.

  • http://twitter.com/Henryed07 Henry Edwards

    I have installed Windows 8 on my 6 year old laptop, that came with XP, so it was Vista Capable. i then installed 7 whihc made it better. But windows 8 is the best even better than XP. It boots up faster than when I got it.

    Plus the UI is great, a little strange at first but one will get used to it.

  • Aa

    I don’t like Win8 because it sux compare to Windows Phone 7. The only better thing than Mango is the ability to take screenshot. Maybe the apps are not finished, but, at current progress, I much prefer to use Windows Phone 7 than Win8 Metro.

    Many “trivial” things that I can do on Mango, cannot be done on Win8 Metro (save a picture or fav list in IE). Or the performance is far worse than Mango (video/audio playback), especially I have a much stronger laptop hardware compare to a tiny phone. Calender didn’t download all emails from Hotmail probably because it only download like 7 days to email (seriously, I mean, come on).

    To Win8 CP, specifically CP, I do not like it. Not until it can do the same trivial thing as Mango.

  • Aa

    I don’t like Win8 because it sux compare to Windows Phone 7. The only better thing than Mango is the ability to take screenshot. Maybe the apps are not finished, but, at current progress, I much prefer to use Windows Phone 7 than Win8 Metro.

    Many “trivial” things that I can do on Mango, cannot be done on Win8 Metro (save a picture or fav list in IE). Or the performance is far worse than Mango (video/audio playback), especially I have a much stronger laptop hardware compare to a tiny phone. Calender didn’t download all emails from Hotmail probably because it only download like 7 days to email (seriously, I mean, come on).

    To Win8 CP, specifically CP, I do not like it. Not until it can do the same trivial thing as Mango.

  • http://twitter.com/qzmufu qzmufu

    While I think that Windows 8 and the Metro interface are a great thing for consumers who wish to watch videos, listen to music and surf the web, I am not too optimistic about it in, let’s say, working environments. In many ways there is a significant reduction in functionality. For example, using the metro interface you couldn’t display two word documents or websites next to each other, because launching multiple instances of an application is not possible. Two equally sized applications isn’t possible either. Or, consider for how many things a right mouse button is useful.

    Sure, one might be tempted to say: just use the desktop environment for that. But, first of all, as long as these applications use a separate task switcher, like they do now, that is a huge pain, and secondly, how many business scenarios are then left for metro?

    I really hope Microsoft will address such issues – as I really like the concepts of live tiles and “full screen apping” per se.

  • http://twitter.com/qzmufu qzmufu

    While I think that Windows 8 and the Metro interface are a great thing for consumers who wish to watch videos, listen to music and surf the web, I am not too optimistic about it in, let’s say, working environments. In many ways there is a significant reduction in functionality. For example, using the metro interface you couldn’t display two word documents or websites next to each other, because launching multiple instances of an application is not possible. Two equally sized applications isn’t possible either. Or, consider for how many things a right mouse button is useful.

    Sure, one might be tempted to say: just use the desktop environment for that. But, first of all, as long as these applications use a separate task switcher, like they do now, that is a huge pain, and secondly, how many business scenarios are then left for metro?

    I really hope Microsoft will address such issues – as I really like the concepts of live tiles and “full screen apping” per se.

  • rfyorkinpdx

    I installed Windows8 consumer Beta on Saturday. First it destroyed my file structure. All the files remain but no folders remain. Next, though it’s supposed to be for pads, every time I go to the screen it brings up the damned virtual keyboard.

    It constantly seems to re-size my web pages in Chrome.

    Finally, it refuses to use my Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse 5000. Sometimes it sees it but, mostly it won’t connect.

    Does anyone know if there’s a real page on Microsoft to register these problems. 

  • rfyorkinpdx

    I installed Windows8 consumer Beta on Saturday. First it destroyed my file structure. All the files remain but no folders remain. Next, though it’s supposed to be for pads, every time I go to the screen it brings up the damned virtual keyboard.

    It constantly seems to re-size my web pages in Chrome.

    Finally, it refuses to use my Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse 5000. Sometimes it sees it but, mostly it won’t connect.

    Does anyone know if there’s a real page on Microsoft to register these problems.