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by Chris on 18 Nov 2008, 09:36 PM with 19 comment(s) and 1,599 views

What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

One of the reasons why we started LiveSide was to help to build a community around Windows Live, to share our thoughts and views with those who were interested in what Microsoft had to offer, and hear what they had to say in return.  While we’ve done reasonably well with that aim, it’s been disappointing for us to see that Microsoft hasn’t seized this opportunity to do the same.

At the beginning of last year they were on the right track. Blogs were buzzing about what this new Microsoft initiative meant, and about the whole range of products that were being launched into beta.  Windows Live Events were held in several European cities, reaching out to community leaders to explain what Windows Live was about, and giving demonstrations of new products. This was a pretty successful start by anybody’s standards and one we were hoping would develop with time.

Unfortunately there has been a steady decline since then, with Windows Live becoming more and more like the MSN of old. So why does the Windows Live community of late seem to be suffering? Here are a few reasons I came up with:

  • Few Windows Live employees have fully embraced blogging. Sure there are team blogs, but a number of these have fallen by the wayside or have commenting disabled. (There are some obvious exceptions here, credit to those where due.)
  • There is very little employee interaction on community blogs.
  • Lack of recognition from Microsoft – Windows Live isn’t a category on the featured communities’ pages, and wire.live.com has been dead for several months now. No communities are included in the live.com default feeds. All in all it’s almost as though Microsoft wants blogs about Windows Live to disappear.

The first two are definitely troublesome, as it suggests that a) there is little interest in talking to the community or b) employees don’t feel they can say what they’d like to say to the community for fear of saying something they shouldn’t.  The third point however screams the loudest. Does Microsoft not want to encourage those blogging Windows Live in the hope they’ll just vanish into the night? Does the war with Google mean that keeping new developments quiet is more important than building a community around your products?

To quote Sean O’Driscoll:

“The only decision you get to make is whether or not to participate in that conversation. You must also accept the fact that you CANNOT control the conversation. In fact, the harder you try the more impossible it is”

Punishing enthusiasm is bad. Pushing your most valued fans away is bad. Making them choose between serving the community and becoming little more than PR gimmicks is bad. The independent communities that do exist, and that we’re a part of, don’t work for Microsoft, so don’t expect them to follow the company line.  If you want PR go speak to News.com, if you want a discussion then join the conversation, and encourage your employees to do the same.


Posted Feb 24 2007, 06:23 PM by Chris

Comments

jerone wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-24-2007 8:52 PM

I totaly dont get it. Microsoft had a great thing going on with MSN products. Then they disited to make a change and started Windows Live. Well oke, I first didn't like it, but after a while I started to get intressent and later even enthousiast when a new Windows Live product came out. I think it was a good desision to make a change and make it all together, with the same name and layout.

But now i dont know what they are doing; changing things back to MSN, abanden products, or even stopping some products.

Microsoft, what are you doing? Keep us updated!

seanodmvp wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-24-2007 9:17 PM

Well, this post certainly caught my eye...and not because I was quoted...although I definately stand by that!!

Thinking on this a bit.

Sean

www.communitygrouptherapy.com

Khristopher wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-24-2007 10:43 PM

I couldn't agree more with this article. I feel like I'm the one that needs to teach "Windows Live" to my friends and explain what it is to them. I shouldn't be the one to do that.

There is a serious lack of community. And most of the blog entries I read on the official blogs are so silly and mundane that it's pointless for them to even blog in the first place. And disabling comments? That has got to be the most rudest thing. Enable them! You don't even have to read them if you don't want, but at least enable them and let people say what they want!

TheViewMaster wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-25-2007 11:41 AM

The Basic Problem w/Windows Live, In Particular & Microsoft, In General IS THAT, The "Stuff", Meaning What Was Once Software But, Is NOW, JavaScript a.k.a. Ajax (Gimmicks), ...DON'T WORK!!!

...Or, Is SOOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW That, It May As Well, NOT WORK!  :-(

Make IT WORK (Fast) & They Will Come (Back)!  ;-)

sebastianlewis wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-25-2007 12:31 PM

The only possible reason I can think of is that Windows Live is just a mediocre platform, that took an Xbox service's branding and slapped it onto their OS.  The only notable piece of code out of Windows Live that I used was Windows Live Writer.  Even that wasn't enough to keep me from jumping ship to the wonderful world of Mac OS X where TextMate, Yojimbo, and Quicksilver rule my productivity.  Then again, it didn't help that it only played nice with Windows Live Spaces, my blog happened to be on Blogger in Beta at the time, and now it's just on Blogger, or Blogger out of Beta.  Take your pick.

A Small breakdown though:

-Microsoft had a Breakdown in branding several times.  They renamed most stuff Windows Live, kept some stuff as MSN, kept msn.com as MSN but placed the backbone on Windows Live, renamed Windows Live Mail to Windows Live Hotmail, and one can only imagine what that will do to the desktop version.  So they attempted to salvage what was left by moving some stuff back to MSN, some stuff as hybrids of old and new in branding, and basically doing absolutely nothing.

-They failed to create a better search engine then Google.  They had QnA going for it for a while but that one largely went nowhere and still is.  The entire idea around Live is just to get more Ads out anyways, and with a search engine that is far less useful then the one I already used, which also gained some improvements of it's own, I was not inclined to switch.

-Google may fail at delivering IMAP, but Windows Live (Hot)mail failed to deliver even POP3, which largely led to me just not using it at all, and moving the majority of my contacts over to AIM with my .Mac email, or to Jabber with my Gmail.  Fortunately I made things easier on myself by not adding more contacts to MSN/Windows Live Messenger/Messenger for Mac months ago.  It also didn't help matters when Camino, my browser of choice, couldn't get the full view of Windows Live Mail, even though it has the same backbone as Firefox.

-Microsoft further screwed everything else up by half agreeing with themselves and half disagreeing.  As stated above, they can't seem to get it to play nice with other browsers and Operating Systems, even though they said they would, and they can't seem to figure out their own brand anymore.

All in all, another Microsoft failure, but to their credit, nobody will notice or care because no one knew what Windows Live was to begin with.  Products that survive the fallout will move on, and some like Windows Live Messenger, which is one success for them, may keep their branding, I just won't be around to see it.

Sebastian

domanite wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-25-2007 7:30 PM

I'm an old-time Microsoft guy, but new to the Live organization.  I'm interested in being a part of the community.  Where are the best sites to read and post?  My blog is at http://galactic-patrol.spaces.live.com, but I admit I don't have Live-specific content up yet.

Kip Kniskern wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-26-2007 12:08 AM

Domanite - Well of course you're starting in the right place, at LiveSide!  You can check out some of our favorite blogs and subscribe by clicking on our OPML lists, on our home page in one of the right hand boxes.  Thanks for posting, and looking forward to hearing from you more, either on your blog (subscribed) or please do leave us comments.

Legion wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-26-2007 6:45 AM

The simple fact is that Microsoft appears to be abandoning Windows Live, one piece at a time. And that really is a damn shame, because -- along with Windows Vista -- it would have ushered MS web services into an entirely new era of desktop and web -- "webtop" -- convergence which it sorely needs if it wants to compete with Google and Yahoo. And it WILL need to compete with Google and Yahoo.

By going back to the old MSN branding, Microsoft may keep the old die-hards, but it won't gain the 20-somethings who are primarily using its competition, and it NEEDS that piece of the consumer pie. Windows Live -- not just the services and products, the new image, too -- that was Microsoft's ticket to redefining a converged computing experience.

It is rapidly tearing up that ticket and tossing the shreds over its shoulder, and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it. It's maddening.

sebastianlewis wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-26-2007 8:50 AM

I'm curious as to why you want Microsoft to do well with their Services?  Historically, they love to push their weight the size of a monopoly into new ground and completely ruin it.  Now you want them to take the internet?

Sebastian

Chris wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-26-2007 9:21 AM

Sebastian we don't want them to take the internet, as a monopoly is nearly always bad for the users. Providing a decent competitor for Google would be nice though!

ewright wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 02-26-2007 4:13 PM

I suspect that the problem is heavy turnover in the Live management team.  My experience has been that individual teams such as Live ID can be reached, but when referred to a business development person the line goes dead.   Scott Swanson, Michael Maggs, these are the dead ends in my case.  

I +want+ Live but continue to integrate the Google platform.  Google Apps is really coming along. The new SSO component is great - I remain the Identity Provider for an integrated Gmail!

domanite wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 03-02-2007 2:45 AM

Legion - my impression from inside the Live organization is that Microsoft continues to drive, and in fact increase, its investment and commitment to our Live products and services.  We're probably just not communicating these offerings and investments as well as we should.  

Perhaps ewright is also correct about the business management - I haven't been on the Live team long enough to know about that.  (And honestly, even if I was, its probably not something I would feel comfortable commenting about.)

Hackersoft wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 03-05-2007 8:38 PM

domanite - "(And honestly, even if I was, its probably not something I would feel comfortable commenting about.)" And we're back to Chris's point again regarding communication from within.

I'm privelaged enough to be part of the WL MVP "community" as are many here, and yet communication from the various windows live teams is virtually non-existant, even to us, never mind to the public as a whole.

domanite wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 03-06-2007 6:04 PM

I'm a developer, not a business manager, that's why I'm not comfortable commenting on the business strategy.  Got any technical stuff you want to chat about?

Custom Computers wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 04-14-2007 7:23 PM

I would like to comment ...

Having used WL MAIL over 6 months , we love it.

Messenger Live is not what I expected by design but attempting to sell it to more

contacts.

Live spaces to complicated for the average user to deploy and set up.

Expo....after 4 months same issue...tested four ads with zero replies.

What all this tells me is that we all need better promotion of all the LIVE PRODUCTS

and then good quality updated Help Files for the comsumer.

charlielive wrote re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities
on 05-31-2007 12:32 AM

(obligatory "Hi, I'm new..")

As someone with way too much experience dealing with Microsoft, community-building, and "getting attention", I'd like to offer my perspective and opinions.

1. Competition between product groups ensures that each group will tightly control it's external access. This has killed most external access unless tightly controlled. Have you ever seen the dossiers Microsoft keeps on every journalist, etc?

2. The Partner program is great, however by making that their single focus Microsoft has classified "Joe Computer-User" as unworthy and worse. Google & Open Source realize how many millions of average users there are--any are succeeding in winning public mindshare that is becoming nearly impossible for MSFT to counter.

3. Community-building happens thru the commitment of the community. Not by whining about what Microsoft does or does not do. Leadership in communities is earned not given.

I could go on and on... Laughing!

Good luck herding cats!

Charlie

http://www.charlieLive.com

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