What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

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re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

charlielive — Thu, 31 May 2007 05:32:28 GMT

(obligatory "Hi, I'm new..")

As someone with way too much experience dealing with Microsoft, community-building, and "getting attention", I'd like to offer my perspective and opinions.

1. Competition between product groups ensures that each group will tightly control it's external access. This has killed most external access unless tightly controlled. Have you ever seen the dossiers Microsoft keeps on every journalist, etc?

2. The Partner program is great, however by making that their single focus Microsoft has classified "Joe Computer-User" as unworthy and worse. Google & Open Source realize how many millions of average users there are--any are succeeding in winning public mindshare that is becoming nearly impossible for MSFT to counter.

3. Community-building happens thru the commitment of the community. Not by whining about what Microsoft does or does not do. Leadership in communities is earned not given.

I could go on and on... Laughing!

Good luck herding cats!

Charlie

http://www.charlieLive.com

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Custom Computers — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:23:58 GMT

I would like to comment ...

Having used WL MAIL over 6 months , we love it.

Messenger Live is not what I expected by design but attempting to sell it to more

contacts.

Live spaces to complicated for the average user to deploy and set up.

Expo....after 4 months same issue...tested four ads with zero replies.

What all this tells me is that we all need better promotion of all the LIVE PRODUCTS

and then good quality updated Help Files for the comsumer.

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

domanite — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:04:15 GMT

I'm a developer, not a business manager, that's why I'm not comfortable commenting on the business strategy. Got any technical stuff you want to chat about?

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Hackersoft — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 02:38:53 GMT

domanite - "(And honestly, even if I was, its probably not something I would feel comfortable commenting about.)" And we're back to Chris's point again regarding communication from within.

I'm privelaged enough to be part of the WL MVP "community" as are many here, and yet communication from the various windows live teams is virtually non-existant, even to us, never mind to the public as a whole.

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

domanite — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:45:47 GMT

Legion - my impression from inside the Live organization is that Microsoft continues to drive, and in fact increase, its investment and commitment to our Live products and services. We're probably just not communicating these offerings and investments as well as we should.

Perhaps ewright is also correct about the business management - I haven't been on the Live team long enough to know about that. (And honestly, even if I was, its probably not something I would feel comfortable commenting about.)

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

ewright — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:13:28 GMT

I suspect that the problem is heavy turnover in the Live management team. My experience has been that individual teams such as Live ID can be reached, but when referred to a business development person the line goes dead. Scott Swanson, Michael Maggs, these are the dead ends in my case.

I +want+ Live but continue to integrate the Google platform. Google Apps is really coming along. The new SSO component is great - I remain the Identity Provider for an integrated Gmail!

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Chris — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:21:09 GMT

Sebastian we don't want them to take the internet, as a monopoly is nearly always bad for the users. Providing a decent competitor for Google would be nice though!

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

sebastianlewis — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:50:28 GMT

I'm curious as to why you want Microsoft to do well with their Services? Historically, they love to push their weight the size of a monopoly into new ground and completely ruin it. Now you want them to take the internet?

Sebastian

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Legion — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:45:23 GMT

The simple fact is that Microsoft appears to be abandoning Windows Live, one piece at a time. And that really is a damn shame, because -- along with Windows Vista -- it would have ushered MS web services into an entirely new era of desktop and web -- "webtop" -- convergence which it sorely needs if it wants to compete with Google and Yahoo. And it WILL need to compete with Google and Yahoo.

By going back to the old MSN branding, Microsoft may keep the old die-hards, but it won't gain the 20-somethings who are primarily using its competition, and it NEEDS that piece of the consumer pie. Windows Live -- not just the services and products, the new image, too -- that was Microsoft's ticket to redefining a converged computing experience.

It is rapidly tearing up that ticket and tossing the shreds over its shoulder, and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it. It's maddening.

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Kip Kniskern — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 06:08:34 GMT

Domanite - Well of course you're starting in the right place, at LiveSide! You can check out some of our favorite blogs and subscribe by clicking on our OPML lists, on our home page in one of the right hand boxes. Thanks for posting, and looking forward to hearing from you more, either on your blog (subscribed) or please do leave us comments.

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

domanite — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:30:48 GMT

I'm an old-time Microsoft guy, but new to the Live organization. I'm interested in being a part of the community. Where are the best sites to read and post? My blog is at http://galactic-patrol.spaces.live.com, but I admit I don't have Live-specific content up yet.

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

sebastianlewis — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:31:05 GMT

The only possible reason I can think of is that Windows Live is just a mediocre platform, that took an Xbox service's branding and slapped it onto their OS. The only notable piece of code out of Windows Live that I used was Windows Live Writer. Even that wasn't enough to keep me from jumping ship to the wonderful world of Mac OS X where TextMate, Yojimbo, and Quicksilver rule my productivity. Then again, it didn't help that it only played nice with Windows Live Spaces, my blog happened to be on Blogger in Beta at the time, and now it's just on Blogger, or Blogger out of Beta. Take your pick.

A Small breakdown though:

-Microsoft had a Breakdown in branding several times. They renamed most stuff Windows Live, kept some stuff as MSN, kept msn.com as MSN but placed the backbone on Windows Live, renamed Windows Live Mail to Windows Live Hotmail, and one can only imagine what that will do to the desktop version. So they attempted to salvage what was left by moving some stuff back to MSN, some stuff as hybrids of old and new in branding, and basically doing absolutely nothing.

-They failed to create a better search engine then Google. They had QnA going for it for a while but that one largely went nowhere and still is. The entire idea around Live is just to get more Ads out anyways, and with a search engine that is far less useful then the one I already used, which also gained some improvements of it's own, I was not inclined to switch.

-Google may fail at delivering IMAP, but Windows Live (Hot)mail failed to deliver even POP3, which largely led to me just not using it at all, and moving the majority of my contacts over to AIM with my .Mac email, or to Jabber with my Gmail. Fortunately I made things easier on myself by not adding more contacts to MSN/Windows Live Messenger/Messenger for Mac months ago. It also didn't help matters when Camino, my browser of choice, couldn't get the full view of Windows Live Mail, even though it has the same backbone as Firefox.

-Microsoft further screwed everything else up by half agreeing with themselves and half disagreeing. As stated above, they can't seem to get it to play nice with other browsers and Operating Systems, even though they said they would, and they can't seem to figure out their own brand anymore.

All in all, another Microsoft failure, but to their credit, nobody will notice or care because no one knew what Windows Live was to begin with. Products that survive the fallout will move on, and some like Windows Live Messenger, which is one success for them, may keep their branding, I just won't be around to see it.

Sebastian

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

TheViewMaster — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:41:00 GMT

The Basic Problem w/Windows Live, In Particular & Microsoft, In General IS THAT, The "Stuff", Meaning What Was Once Software But, Is NOW, JavaScript a.k.a. Ajax (Gimmicks), ...DON'T WORK!!!

...Or, Is SOOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW That, It May As Well, NOT WORK! :-(

Make IT WORK (Fast) & They Will Come (Back)! ;-)

re: What's (not) happening with Windows Live communities

Khristopher — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 04:43:06 GMT

I couldn't agree more with this article. I feel like I'm the one that needs to teach "Windows Live" to my friends and explain what it is to them. I shouldn't be the one to do that.

There is a serious lack of community. And most of the blog entries I read on the official blogs are so silly and mundane that it's pointless for them to even blog in the first place. And disabling comments? That has got to be the most rudest thing. Enable them! You don't even have to read them if you don't want, but at least enable them and let people say what they want!